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09MEX3 tubes in a marquee??? Can it be done
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Any updates? CRT_BEN have you taken any pics of the pinout mod yet?

Athanasios

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Programguy



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 29
Location: Wilmington, IL


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any updates? I'm also interested in the out come of this...
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got a set in and took pics of the guns for TSE to look at, But the tubes I have are special hybrid tubes specially made for a high resolution simulator that have a sony pinout pattern suposedly. This is what we are trying to confirm. I think it can be done but it either need a major rework of the VNB or a custom adaptor made so you dont have to cut traces and make jumper wires all over the VNB. The only thing i see as a problem would be that the VNB wont fit now inside the back aluminum cover of the tube. so it have to be left off or a new cover can be made from some sheet aluminim that would give more room.

Athanasios

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CRT_Ben



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Sorry I haven't taken pics of my VNB's yet - I'm not sure when that will get done. I'm hesitant to take my PJ apart during football season Smile First it was the olympics, now football, but I've also been meaning to do a re-setup so maybe if I get some free time it'll happen.

I hopefully still have the notes/spreadsheet that I used to rewire the VNB's, but it's on my dad's computer so I keep forgetting to ask him to email it to me. Somebody send me a PM tonight to remind me Laughing
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really shouldnt be that hard its just making sure the right traces are cut and rerouted to the sony tubes appropriate pins. Now everyone remember Ben has these same tubes, they are nopt the original sony tubes these are made by Thomas Electronics so that extra pin that some say is needed for proper focus might be different than the tubes that ben and I have.

Athanasios

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speedyandre



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If all this is not going to happen I've a nice warm place for the Sony tubes in my 1292 Laughing

André

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well Guys I did a quick test yesterday with my modded vim and blew four resistors on it with my stupidity !!! I connected a jumper wrong on the VNB and smoked them. TSE pointed it out to me. Now I have these as bare tubes and no mounting hardware for them yet so i really cant test them too well. But back to the story, So i had some radioshack carbon film resistors and replaced them moved the Jumper to the right position(I had the G1 and Cathode connected to each other !) . Went back to the PJ and put the convergance and scan yoke connection on the back then i put some foam over the CVA/VDm and laid the test tube on it. Connected all the connections and ran a ground wire from the VNB to chasis ground. I just slipped on the magnetics with no glue since this is just a test with no cooling chamber on the face and because so i previously lowered the contrast and brightness to about 35 for each. I disconnected the P14 pin THIS TIME so if anything was wrong the tubes would be damaged , this advice came from TSE, thanks Scott! So I fired it up and no smoke this time!! woo Hoo ! now to connect the P14 I was too close the bare tube to do it while on as scott suggested so i decided to take a chance and turn off the PJ and connect it then fire it up, fingers crossed and hand on the power plug just in case. Fired it up, heard the crakle and on the face of the red tube was the green No V sync !!! woo hoo!!!!( used the greens connections) The raster was large and skewed about 30 degrees because of the not aligned magnetics, but ti looked good! The raster was lit up a lot ! i also went quickly into the menu to shrink the H size as the raster being tilted was off the edges. The rasyr was bright so i went to lower the contrast and i hears a spark/Snap (Arc?) and the pic went out then came back on slowly refocusing. I then turned it off and called it a night for now. I really cant test more with out a housing and coolant on the face. But so far it works and can be done. the arc Suppressor i connected to ground witha 100kohm resistor.

I'll post the pics tomorrow or the next day. If any one has an idea why I had the HVPS shut down let me know.



Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25437
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
well Guys I did a quick test yesterday with my modded vim and blew four resistors on it with my stupidity !!! I connected a jumper wrong on the VNB and smoked them. TSE pointed it out to me. Now I have these as bare tubes and no mounting hardware for them yet so i really cant test them too well. But back to the story, So i had some radioshack carbon film resistors and replaced them moved the Jumper to the right position(I had the G1 and Cathode connected to each other !) . Went back to the PJ and put the convergance and scan yoke connection on the back then i put some foam over the CVA/VDm and laid the test tube on it. Connected all the connections and ran a ground wire from the VNB to chasis ground. I just slipped on the magnetics with no glue since this is just a test with no cooling chamber on the face and because so i previously lowered the contrast and brightness to about 35 for each. I disconnected the P14 pin THIS TIME so if anything was wrong the tubes would be damaged , this advice came from TSE, thanks Scott! So I fired it up and no smoke this time!! woo Hoo ! now to connect the P14 I was too close the bare tube to do it while on as scott suggested so i decided to take a chance and turn off the PJ and connect it then fire it up, fingers crossed and hand on the power plug just in case. Fired it up, heard the crakle and on the face of the red tube was the green No V sync !!! woo hoo!!!!( used the greens connections) The raster was large and skewed about 30 degrees because of the not aligned magnetics, but ti looked good! The raster was lit up a lot ! i also went quickly into the menu to shrink the H size as the raster being tilted was off the edges. The rasyr was bright so i went to lower the contrast and i hears a spark/Snap (Arc?) and the pic went out then came back on slowly refocusing. I then turned it off and called it a night for now. I really cant test more with out a housing and coolant on the face. But so far it works and can be done. the arc Suppressor i connected to ground witha 100kohm resistor.

I'll post the pics tomorrow or the next day. If any one has an idea why I had the HVPS shut down let me know.



Athanasios


Chip's Ampro post's have rubbed off on you and the Spellman HV restart has infected your HVPS through the 'net like a virus. Laughing

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I did the VNB mod and got the tubes to work now remember these are Hybrid tubes
that have the same pinouts as a sony tube. I will add pics from each gun that were
supplied to me by Scott. I also will say this is still an ongoing test since i do not have
the tubes properly mounted on LC housings for cooling so it was a very short test maybe
a few minutes or less. So if anyone tries this and messes up I warned you. But Ben confirmed
it to some extent that he did the same thing to his with a different variation but essentially the same.

Ok here is the standard panasonic tube Gun of a Marquee:



Now this is a standard sony tube Gun



And now the Hybrid tube I have



As you can see from the above pics the sony and the Hybrid( Thomas) tube have the Arc/spark
Suppressor, this is what must be grounded to a high value resistor, TSE suggested 10k- 1M(bens value)
I used a 100K carbon from the one removed off the VNB when i did the ceramic resistor swap.

here is a pic of the VNB after i drilled out the PCB for the two extra pins and the new large hole
for the G2 connector. first you must remove the pin from that location by just heating it with
the soldering iron it comes right out.


New holes for sony pinouts



Pin 5 In new Home



Cut traces of pins 6,7,8,9,10




All traces Cut



Jumper from SG2 to G1 pin location



Jumper from SG1 to cathode pin location (VNB pin 10 on the tube its pin 9)



The heaters come off of the two ferrite beads FB1 and FB2, these conduct heat so
work fast as the bead will move while soldering, you could maybe put some hot glue
on the opposite side to hold in place if you have trouble with it moving.

Connecting a heater jumper



Both heater jumpers in place



And the final hook up with the 100k resistor to ground from the
ARC suppressor pin and the G2 hooked up.




After your done CRT Ben said he potted it with hot glue over the pins that were
exposed close to the jumpers( pins 6.7.8.9.10) this will help prevent any arcing between them.

Hopefully more will have success with this, once i get a set of LC housing i plan to fully
test a tube longer than this initial test. So this should do it for any sony Pinout tube in a Marquee !!

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Last edited by Nashou66 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:21 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I put a tube in an LC housing so i could test it further, At first I got some smoke and i do believe it was the arc suppressing resistor was loose, I resoldered it and tested all other resistors and they meassured ok, so i tested again this time I pulled P14(heater) to make sure the VNB wasnt going to smoke again. No Smoke cool !
So I connected P14 and it fired up crackle and no smoke ! but I heard a snap and turned it off.(got scared) I checked out the VNB and it looked fine, so I reconnected it all again and turned it on with P14 disconnected and it ran for a few minutes fine, reconnected P14 and this time i had all the lights off so i could see the spark. It was in the tube neck !!! And it would not allow the tube to light up. so it seames the arc supresor isnt doing it job, Should I raise the value of the resistor from 100 Kohm to 1Mohm or lower it to 10 Kohm?

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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CRT_Ben



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1684
Location: Northern Virginia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Ok I put a tube in an LC housing so i could test it further, At first I got some smoke and i do believe it was the arc suppressing resistor was loose, I resoldered it and tested all other resistors and they meassured ok, so i tested again this time I pulled P14(heater) to make sure the VNB wasnt going to smoke again. No Smoke cool !
So I connected P14 and it fred up crackle and no smoke ! but I heard a snap and turned it off.(got scared) I checked out the VNB and it looked fine, so I reconnected it all again and turned it on with P14 disconnected and it ran for a few minutes fine, reconnected P14 and this time i had all the lights off so i could see the spark. It was in the tube neck !!! And it would not allow the tube to light up. so it eames the arc supresor isnt doing it job, Should I raise the value of the resistor from 100 Kohm to 1Mohm or lower it to 10 Kohm?

Athanasios


Athanasios,

As I stated in PM I'm running a 1M resistor I think. I'm not sure what the problem is with your tube, but I can tell you that the first Green I got from CJ must have had a vacuum leak because it arced internally, once every few seconds. I actually have a few pictures of it arcing, but when that's happening the tube is ruined. Then, the first Blue I got from CJ had a completely dead heater. The tube face was snow white but when you hooked it up, the heater didn't glow at all, nothing. So obviously that tube had no emission. Luckily CJ made good and sent me another Green, Blue, and threw in a spare Red, and I ended up with a working set. I really hope your tube isn't ruined... Sad

Ben
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speedyandre



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are these (used) tubes ok or do they fail more often then others?
If so, how do the new tubes perform?
I can choose low-hour Sony tubes for my 1292 or these (new) tubes.

André

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks ben for the info, It is doing exactly as you said your was, with out the heater it doesnt arc.

Andre, I am not sure now. Aferg has not responded to my request for tube for you yet, so I will see. I just sent him an e-mail for a new green. I should just buy the new ones he has but not sure how much they want for them. The red worked on the same VNB and it did arc but it was external on the VNB i think not sure, will test it out of housing once more and also the Blue I have. then I will put it into the LC housing of the Green just to make sure It works. I know its a lot of removing LC housings an Bellows But it may be a good thing as I will become a Marquee bellow expert ! Wink

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think its the VNB, tested it with the other tubes and no go, so i inspected it and a few parts look like they are damaged R30 and R29 are toasted but still read the correct value, and D6 is shot, this is just from visual inspection, you can see bubbles in them.
I hope the rectifiers aren't toasted also, Schematic time !

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25437
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Well I think its the VNB, tested it with the other tubes and no go, so i inspected it and a few parts look like they are damaged R30 and R29 are toasted but still read the correct value, and D6 is shot, this is just from visual inspection, you can see bubbles in them.
I hope the rectifiers aren't toasted also, Schematic time !

Athanasios


Was the VNB like that before you tried these tubes?

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Nashou66 wrote:
Well I think its the VNB, tested it with the other tubes and no go, so i inspected it and a few parts look like they are damaged R30 and R29 are toasted but still read the correct value, and D6 is shot, this is just from visual inspection, you can see bubbles in them.
I hope the rectifiers aren't toasted also, Schematic time !

Athanasios


Was the VNB like that before you tried these tubes?


I'm not sure, last time i got the red tube working with out an LC housing, I had an arc(not internal IIRC0 and the power supply shut down then came up again but the tube was fine after it came up again and i shut the PJ down and never
tested again till the other day when it smoked. I thought it was the arc supressor resistors bad conection but now i know it was these parts. So

1) the tubes are still ok and thats why they were arcing internal

2) the damaged VNB now damaged the tubes as well

lets hope its #1

I think I'll take parts off an ond VNB or Vim I have and test again later today. I will go through and inspect each resistor on the VNB first plu the diode's.

Edit? one resistor is to the cathode chain and the other is part of the G2 , I think.
The Diode is in the V-Clamp circiut if this will give anyone some ideas
I just hope if the G2 and cathode shorted each other they may have killed the tube? is this a possibility?


Athanasios

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Modded VNB works after retesting Reply with quote

Update :

It seams I am an idiot !

The extension umbilical cord i made from tying two umbilical cords together was wrong Shocked , the connections do not go straight across if you lay down the connectors flat facing the same way they cross over. I set them up so when i tested the two together the pins on the same side had continuity when really it should have been the other side. I replaced all the diodes i found bad and also changed out two op amps that i think may have went bad U4 and the one in the circuit protection area your not suppose to mess with, U1, but i did it anyhow, had too as i think it was shorted after comparing it to another type of chip i had, the TLE2072, which is what i used as a replacement. So i reconnected the red tube i already had the magnetics on and fired her up with the heater disconnected at P14. All worked fine with no smoke and no arcing.

So now the real test hooked up P14 and fired her up...............I see light!!!! Tube lit up, menu came up, I reduced the size as I was in the safe zone and let her run for about two minutes since I don't have this tube in a LC housing. All looked nice and sharp with not even setting up the magnetics, only thing was the whole raster was lit up, and I think this is because they are the high output hybrid tubes that will need a lower G2, i did not have time to find the menu as the tube was getting hot. I am going to go test soon with the green tube I placed in the LC housing.

So far so good !!

Will update when I test the Green.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I had some time before i head to work and put the green tube on the modded VNB. On this one I had some arcing internaly every few seconds then it stopped also you could see a plasma like electrical field going up one of the white bars in the tube. Well i figured it was free tube and it might be shot so I pressed on. I got it to show an image and now the arcing happened every few minutes and it would loose focus then come back and it was taking longer between arcs, maybe there is some crud near the tube pins causing the arc i will have to look closer. but here are some pics I also was able to lower G2 to about 52 where the raster was dark.

here are the pics:



G2 too high see diagonal lines.



G2 lowered to 52





the geometry is off and i didn't have time to put a lens on it to see how it looked on screen. I also am using 8 inch deflection yoke and think a 9 inch one would be much better if they are different. it looks like too much room between yoke and bell housing. the arcing is the only thing bothering me so far as I cant use the tube if it arcs like that. think i should let it run and allow the arc to burnitslef off as it seem to take longer between arcs?

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
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Last edited by Nashou66 on Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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speedyandre



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Location: Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's nice to see some progress here Thumbs Up
Maybe the arcing stops if it tends to happen less then before, to bad that these tubes have some problems.

André

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Last edited by speedyandre on Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedyandre wrote:
It's nice to see some progress here Thumbs Up
Maybe the arcing stops if it tends to happen less then befoere, to bad that these tubes have some problems.

André


they do have some new tubes, where I am sure they have no issues, I just don't know if he still has them or sent them back to the original owner who asked for his company to try to sell them.


Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
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