CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

mc86 · Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: 07MS and 07MP/07MSP tubes

All -

Can someone confirm that a person cannot substitute either 07MP or 07MPS tubes for 07MS tubes (in an ECP 4500)?

All I could find is here...
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-577628.html

I want to confirm because the post below (about a resistor mod in ECPs) purported to have 07MP tubes. I am guessing this is a typo for 07MS...
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=6790.html

Also, while I have folks dusting their ECP tubing mental cobwebs off, can anyone confirm the ECP 4500+ used 07MTS tubes, but with different magnetics? There seemed to be debate on this in the AVS archives, though when I bought my machine I somehow thought they 07MTS in an ECP was sought after...

Thanks,
Matt

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:57 pm Post subject:

A bit of speculation here:

The 07MP and MSP tubes CANNOT be used in the ECP, they are physically too large to fit. That parts not speculation.

What's speculation is the MTS tubes. I think the magnetics are the same as the 07MS and SD187 tubes, and the MTS can be dropped into the 07MS place. I believe the MTS tubes are later models than the 07MS, and are sharper and brighter. Some of the Sony D50 tubes also are marked MTS, but most are P14 something or other. I SPECULATE that the MTS can be used in place of the 07MS tubes and the SD187s. YEs, you may need to add a focus resistor to older sets that originally came with SD187 tubes, but a 4500+ should already have come stock with the 07MS tubes that already have the resistor in place, or have the later model focus block that doesn't need the resistor.

mc86 · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject:

There is an 07MTS tube (red) on ebay that also is marked P14LKJ01RFA that is in a 4500plus. So, Curt looks to be right these are same tubes. Perhaps Sony started adopting the P14* nomenclature at this time. If I decide to bid and win, I would confirm if 07MTS and 07MS tubes can be interchanged...not that anyone but me cares!

Matt

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject:

THE P14s were the last version of the 07MS tubes, sharper and brighter. Same tubes as are in the SOny D50. THe catch is, if they are Sony D50 tubes, the mounting hardware/housing is completely different, and you can't transplant a D50 tube into an ECP or other CRT set using the 07MS tubes. I tried. Failed miserably. Smile

(the D50 tube electronically will work in an ECP, it's the mounting of it that doesn't).

mc86 · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:50 am Post subject:

Ok, you tried to get D50 housing off 07MS to goto ECP and failed. Kinda of sounds like failed badly -- just stuck on somehow? I also saw here where you asked about removing ECP's 07MS housing in order to go D50/other. I'm guessing you didn't try since a few months later you posted a set of 07MS tubes from an ECP for sale? Removing housings off the bell of the tubes must be a rear bear if you felt that defeated! Or I guess 7" tubes only can get so much of your time... Wink

Minor clarification: the 07MTS marked tubes have P14 on them as well, but I don't think any 07MS (no "T") were badged that way. Maybe there is a reality that matters, maybe not, no idea. Going back to my original post, the AVS debate on magnetics on these might be settled with the attached image.

Ah, while I'm documenting this, the barco 701 version of the 07MS seem to have same housing as the ECPs.

Matt

Tim in Phoenix · Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 4409 Location: Phoenix

Hello

Kiss your 4500 g'bye, any new tube in a 4500 will lose focus in one or two thousand hours because of sh*tty electron guns. You will be happier with an 8500 or 9500.

.

mc86 · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:33 pm Post subject:

I've read this a few places before and am very curious. Since the Barco 701, Sony G50, Ampro something, etc. all used these same Sony tubes, did they also suffer the same 1000/2000 hour phosphor beam focus degradation? If not, shouldn't blame be placed on the ECP's sh*tty method of driving the guns and not the guns themselves? That is, I think you are saying the ECPs have a design flaw that ruins the guns somehow and not that the Sony 07MS tubes are to blame. That is not to say they aren't sh*tty in other respects, only that if they don't show a bad flaw in one machine and do in another...it is the machine! Wink

Anyone know if ECPs did the same thing to the SD187s? If so, hard to imagine such a widely sold product never overcame this OR that someone didn't have a mod to fix it. Alternatively, if not, maybe the design for SD187 tubes was not properly adapted for the 07MS tubes with the later model focus/neck boards.

This is fun -- I know so little about the electron guns...more learning! Please school me, lads!

BTW, so long as I can migrate to a nice 9" machine (or, more specifically - so long as I can afford to buy a set of 9"tubes) before I run out of 7" tubes, I'll be OK. That is, I'll need to save up and drop the money on nice tubes BEFORE I get the PJ. That way I'll have nice tubes waiting for a practically free chassis. This is happening already, I think, when good G90 chassis can be had for $500-$700.

Thoughts?
Matt

mc86 · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject:

Partial somewhat unsatisfying answers to my follow-up Q [Tim wasn't able to be super helpful on a PM about this.] are:

I found on a post where Curt said the Sony G50 also were "razor sharp" initially but went sofer by around 3000hours. CraigR added that a G50 with 6500hrs at 1080i looked "nice enough". Other folks seems to think G50s went soft too. So....it looks like this is probably not the ECPs fault and Tim is (not surprisingly) correct or at least in part correct. For Barco 701 and 700 I couldn't find info on this.

the rest of you can keep on shrugging,
Matt

**Curt Palme** · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject:

ALL, and I mean ALL ES focusing tubes will defocus over time. Some worse than others, not really sure why. It's a very gradual thing, you don't notice it from one week to the next. The later the tube model, the higher the brightness and sharpness, but I'm not sure that the tubes ended up holding their focus longer.

SD180
SD187
07MS
07MTS

That's the order that they came out in. Someone said long ago that the SD130s were sharper but less bright than the SD187s. I didn't really see the sharper thing to be the case.

Almost all ES focusing tubes I get in at this point are soft, due to use. I did get a few NOS ES focusing tubes, and they are still sharp, as tubes don't really age over time if not used, at least from what I've seen.

Lots of indudstrial used sets were turned on 24/7, but light only projected out of them for a fraction of the time. That's why you'll find soft ES focusing tubes even though the phosphor is clean. That happens a lot.

I think I have one set of decent low hour tubes here for the ECP. NOt sure what they are, I'd have to check. Might even have one NOS red 07MS here, again, I'd have to check.

Few people at this point are still yusing ES focusing sets, although I did have a customer email me yesterday that's still running one ECP 4500 that I sold him 10+ years ago. His set died yesterday. Problem? Corrosion on the main fuse holder!

The Sony D50s were driven hard, that's why the tubes die quickly. the ECPs didn't drive them as hard, which is why they seem to last longer.

More on EM vs ES here:

http://www.curtpalme.com/CRTPrimer_12.shtm

mc86 · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:10 pm Post subject:

Embarrassed to say I'd never fully recalled reading that on the Primer. Embarassed

I recalled HOW they work, but somehow perceived incorrectly the feedback that was being offered about my tubes going soft as a being particular issue of my PJ and specific tubes.

I totally missed the issue is basically an ES tube vs EM issue. Within the ES tubes there exists nuances in how fast they go soft -- depending on how they were driven, if they were always in standby, possibly a given tube's particular design, etc might impact how fast ES tubes lose their ability to focus.

Got it! Thanks curt, for really making this really clear!

Looks like I need to re-read the primer now that it has been 18months...who knows what I missed the first few times. Wink

still the newb...
Matt