CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[mike calcott]

My system consists of a Sony 1251 fitted with dd & de cards out of a 1271, A Taw rock+ saler, HDTV tuner, and a Sharp bd-hp20x blu-ray player. Both the HDTV tuner and the blu-ray player output at 576i into the scaler and scaled up to 768 by 1200 at 72hz. HDTV looks magnificent , showing great detail, yet the bluray player is not as clean and really no better than my old Nakamichi DVD10 playing SD dvd's and upscaled through the Taw. Would I get a better picture using a Fury into the HD bypass on the Taw?. I work in the retail electronics industry and I must admit my picture is as good as a 1080p plasma playing blu-ray, but I am very picky and feel it should be at least as good as my HDTV picture. Has anyone any suggestions?

[Zebu Fellenz]

Run the blu-ray through the HD-Fury at 1080i direct into the 1251, bypass the Rock scaler

[mike calcott]

The Taw scaler has a D15 input for HD bypass and I am feeding the pj RGBHV 5wire about 15 feet from the scaler. I can plug the Fury directly into the D15 but will I need the power adapter for the Fury, or will the scaler power enough signal to the 1251

[ecrabb]

Mike, I kind of went through this with you in one of your other threads... If I understand what you're doing, then OF COURSE the Blu-ray player looks no better than the old Nakamichi player. If you're outputting 576i from your HD receiver and BD player, you're literally THROWING AWAY half the resolution in those formats (assuming 1080p/1080i source). You're downscaling it (throwing away resolution - original picture material) and scaling it back up. If it gets thrown away, it isn't coming back - ever.

Get rid of the Rock completely and send 1080i from your BD player and your HD receiver. The picture will be SUPERIOR to what you're getting now.

Get a cheap HDMI switch, connect the HD receiver and BD player to the swtich, connect it to an HD Fury with power supply, and set up both 1080i. It will look as awesome on the 1251 as the 1251 can possibly look.

If you still need to watch some true 576i sources (old console, VCR, etc.), use the Rock for those. Then run the HD Fury in through the bypass input.

SC

[mike calcott]

Hi Ecrabb I apreciate your advise on this subject, the problem I have is that when I buit this house, I channeled all of the cableing into the wall behind my screen prior to the plastering of the room ( the builder was very obliging ) I am now retricted to what cables were installed at that time which was a RGBHV feed to the projector which is cieling mounted. I cannot run a HDMI cable without major surgery which my financial director (wife) will not approve. If I can go via HDFury into the HD bypass in the Rock, that is the easiest option. (If your refer to my photo album you will see that all wiring is concealed)
Thanks Mike

[mike calcott]

Hi Ecrabb,
I was curious to know the outcome, so I aquired a HDFury to try your suggestion. After waiting for the unit to arrive and the time to be able to move the furniture housing my equipment I finally installed the HDFury with a HDMI to DVI cable into the HDbypass of my scaler. Unfortunately I was dissapointed, instead of getting a vastly improved picture I got basically the same quality but with lines, albiet very fine lines. The conclusion I have arrived at is that the HDFury is great for anyone who does not have a pro-quality scaler, But for me the scaler gives me a very high quality image with the versatility to switch from more than one input.
Thanks for your suggestions it was interesting to compair, and confirms to me that I have as good as I am going to get from the 1251/1271
Regards Mike

[AnalogRocks]

I wonder how it would look with the HD-Fury on the back of the projector?

[AnalogRocks]

I wonder how it would look with the HD-Fury on the back of the projector?

[mike calcott]

You then have to decide which is the worst of two evils, a long HDMI cable or a long set of 75ohm RGBHV, I do not know, i do not have my bd player that close to the projector, in the layout I am using its not practical

[AnalogRocks]

I was just talking outloud. I have and HD-Fury on the way so I'll try it myself eventually.

[AnalogRocks]

I was just talking outloud. I have and HD-Fury on the way so I'll try it myself eventually.

[ecrabb]

Mike, I don't know what's going on, but something isn't right. BD material played via the HD Fury through the pass-through should look markedly superior to running s-video or component upscaled (via the Rock) from an HD source that's been downconverted.

A couple of questions:
1) Are we talking DVD or BD?
2) What resolution do you have the HDMI output configured on the Sharp player? There could be different options for both BD and SD DVD playback, I assume.

I read a couple of reviews on that Sharp player, and neither spoke very favorably about the SD upscaling, and both specifically mentioned noisy output. So, it's entirely possible that your old DVD's will look better from the Nakamichi scaled by the Rock. Blu-ray on the other hand, should look amazingly sharper and more detailed than DVD, regardless of how you have it cabled up.

SC

[mike calcott]

Hi Sc
I am only commenting on the Blu-ray output, when outputting via HDMI the output was set to 1080i, when I go via the scaler I output at 575i and scale up to 1280 by 720p at 72hz being three times the framerate or 24mhz multiplied by three, when going through the scaler I get a smooth picture and using the edge enhancement I get a 3D like image and no scan lines. When using the HDfury I get a good image but with scan lines (very fine ones) which makes the image look coarser than with the scaler, colour saturation seems a bit denser with the HDFury, but overall I prefer the smooth edgy picture I get through the scaler.
In saying all of this I am picky to the degree of being fanatical about picture quality and have spent many hours calibrating both the projector and scaler to achieve this. I am now semi-retired and still work in the AV industry and I compare the picture quality (sharpness and definition) with the 1080p projectors we sell at work, and I believe my old 1251 with the 1271 dd &de boards outperforms them. although the overall picture on an lcd will never be a good as crt. I am making my comparisons from a high benchmark and I honestly believe that any improvement would be very small, but we all try. By the way congratulations with the G70 I hpe you enjoy it
Regards Mike

[ecrabb]

Wow, Mike - I'm at a complete loss, here.

First, I'm really surprised you're seeing scan lines (small or not) at 1080i from the HDMI/HD Fury combo on your 12xx. I'm pretty fanatical about image quality, too and in LOTS of tweaking with mechanical and electronic focus, astig, and using both HD-8 and PT-65 lenses on both a 1271 and 1272 (both with relatively low hours), I've never been able to clearly resolve scan lines at 1080i - even standing right up at the screen, they're only just barely visible. They might be slightly noticeable on high-contrast vertical motion like rolling credits, but otherwise, for all practical purpose, they're completely invisible at 1.2x screen widths, and barely visible right at the screen. I actually kind of consider it a 'feature' after seeing how obnoxiously sharp the 1080i scan lines are on the G70.

Most people would say the 125x/127x would be getting pretty soft at 720p because the scan lines would be overlapping. In your case, it would seem even worse. Think about what's happening to the picture information in your preferred setup: You're taking a 1080p BD source which has almost 2 megapixels in it (assuming 16:9), you're downscaling it to PAL 576i (.4 megapixels!!!), then you're running it through the Rock where it's doing inverse telecine and interpolating (resampling, which induces more softness) the resulting 576p up to 720p... which in turn is displayed a little soft by the 1271 (1251). It sounds like it should be a train wreck to me... compared to running 1080i through the HD Fury. The only advantage I can see to the scaler at all is that you can run 72hz.

I still can't get over the fact that the signal with literally 1/4 the picture information in it (576i) can - in any way - made to look better than the 1080i pic. It's totally bizarre to me.

I honestly don't know what to tell you at this point. Could you take a couple of screen shots close up so we can A/B?

I love my 127x's - they're just awesome projectors. But, oh boy, does the G70 look smokin' hot. It's almost too sharp! (Did I just say that?)

SC

[ecrabb]

Oh, one other thing... What does the pic look like with the BD player set to output 720p over HDMI to the HD Fury?

SC

[mike calcott]

Hi SC I did not try the 720p output via the Fury so I cannot say what the image is like. Bear in mind that the total hours on my PJ is now only 142, and was only 28 hours on aquisition, I am a newbie to the forum but not to CRT projectors I have been buying and selling CRT's for about 8yrs I have handled about 25 Sony 12xxx series 2 50's 4 10XXX series 6 panasonic PT102 & 106's and 2 barco's, so I am familiar with the operation and setup of crt projectors. My current Pj was in the best condition I have ever seen ( see my photo album ) and the tubes were like brand new so I decided to keep this one for myself. Also I have been trading with scalers and line doublers for many years so I am aware of their capabilities. I thought the HDFury coul eliminate some of my hardware and simplify my rig so that my wife can use it, she dosn't like more than one remote it confuses her. I will be happy to send you some screen shots and you can see for yourself that the way I have this set up is not improved by using the HDfury.
As far as the reviews on th Sharp BD player, My wife bought it for my birthday so I did not have a choice.
Regards Mike