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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: Help with M8000 setup |
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Hi guys!
I went to a friend today, he bought a M8000 with 7000 hours total. He had a VPH600 (!) and I was there to help him setup and troubleshooting it.
I have a 1271, never had a Marqee nor a EM focus set.
My questions and tought:
1. I'm not able to focus the edge of the CRT. I mean electrical focus. On some edge I can't reach the best focus. I mean that I should have a point in the 0-100 control where I can see the best focus and then worsening. No, I'm not able to reach the best focus. On some edge I can reach the best focus with control set to 0 or 100.
2. If I set the contrast over 50 the lines blooms in a never saw way! Lines become three of four time the 30-40 contrast setting. Can this be caused by 7000hrs tubes? On 77" wide screen the image seems a bit dark for my tastes. I'm used at a 700 lumen 1271 and this 1000 lumen M8000 should outperform it. I noted with one color that the blooming is worse in a small part of the raster. More, high brightness image can cause the HV PSU to hiss if I set the contrast too high. And, I can't see any brightness variation with contrast 60-100 with bright images. I also see that one color shows a non simmetric flare when contrast set too high. CPC magnets? Raster is moving too changing focus.
3. How can I set linarity for each colors???? I mean: I center the crosshatches, I move the tubes to align the edge of the image (like help says). Then the center of the three colors are not matching. How can I adjust them? I was used to align the center of the image toeing the tubes but this way the edge are not matching. I don't want to use convergence to fix it. I was used to use linearity and size before fine tuning with convergence. I was not able to do it.
4. Blue tube is a zero: PC burned image on it. Are M8000 tubes still availables? Rebuildabled?
5. Voltage on Heaters is ok, 6.30V
About focus: I tried lens flapping a lot and I was able to have a good focus, uniform on the edge left/right and up/down. But the edges are VERY out of focus. Perhaps I was too near to the edge of the lenses? HD 8 rev B.
I'm searching forum and ETech. Can someone can help in the meantime?
Ciao
Antonio
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: Help with M8000 setup |
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| tony359 wrote: | | 2. If I set the contrast over 50 the lines blooms in a never saw way! Lines become three of four time the 30-40 contrast setting. Can this be caused by 7000hrs tubes? On 77" wide screen the image seems a bit dark for my tastes. I'm used at a 700 lumen 1271 and this 1000 lumen M8000 should outperform it. I noted with one color that the blooming is worse in a small part of the raster. More, high brightness image can cause the HV PSU to hiss if I set the contrast too high |
none of this is normal, you have a either a bad power supply, bad focus module, or a problem in the video chain.
| tony359 wrote: | | 3. How can I set linarity for each colors???? I mean: I center the crosshatches, I move the tubes to align the edge of the image (like help says). Then the center of the three colors are not matching. How can I adjust them? I was used to align the center of the image toeing the tubes but this way the edge are not matching. I don't want to use convergence to fix it. I was used to use linearity and size before fine tuning with convergence. I was not able to do it. |
this is normal, on a Marquee the convergence circuit is used for almsot everything. You do however need to make sure the Horiozontal and vertical size for each color is the same before doing final convergence( Use Interpolated for the first time)
| tony359 wrote: | | 4. Blue tube is a zero: PC burned image on it. Are M8000 tubes still availables? Rebuildabled? |
yes, they're $600. brand new but I would not put a brand new tube in an old 8000, it's juts not worth it.
| tony359 wrote: | 5. Voltage on Heaters is ok, 6.30V
Ciao
Antonio |
this is fine
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Help with M8000 setup |
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| draganm wrote: | | tony359 wrote: | | 2. If I set the contrast over 50 the lines blooms in a never saw way! Lines become three of four time the 30-40 contrast setting. Can this be caused by 7000hrs tubes? On 77" wide screen the image seems a bit dark for my tastes. I'm used at a 700 lumen 1271 and this 1000 lumen M8000 should outperform it. I noted with one color that the blooming is worse in a small part of the raster. More, high brightness image can cause the HV PSU to hiss if I set the contrast too high |
none of this is normal, you have a either a bad power supply, bad focus module, or a problem in the video chain. |
Uhm... Can be a tube fault? Can 7000hrs tube has poor edge focus?
Unfortunately I never saw a well installed EM set and I can't compare it. The center focus is way better than my 1271, but edge focus is just not acceptable. I thought that perhaps I have to rotate the EM coils to have a better focus with all set at 50...?
| tony359 wrote: | | Quote: | | 3. How can I set linarity for each colors???? I mean: I center the crosshatches, I move the tubes to align the edge of the image (like help says). Then the center of the three colors are not matching. How can I adjust them? I was used to align the center of the image toeing the tubes but this way the edge are not matching. I don't want to use convergence to fix it. I was used to use linearity and size before fine tuning with convergence. I was not able to do it. |
this is normal, on a Marquee the convergence circuit is used for almsot everything. You do however need to make sure the Horiozontal and vertical size for each color is the same before doing final convergence( Use Interpolated for the first time) |
Good. I was reading Etech on this. Should I use menus for adjusting main V and H size of each colors or are there coils somewhere that I can tweak?
| tony359 wrote: | | Quote: | | 4. Blue tube is a zero: PC burned image on it. Are M8000 tubes still availables? Rebuildabled? |
yes, they're $600. brand new but I would not put a brand new tube in an old 8000, it's juts not worth it.
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Ok.
Thanks for your help,
Ciao
Antonio
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Have you looked at the tubeface itself and seen bad focus on the edges. If you are only looking at the screen you may just be seeing the limitations of the HD-8 lenses
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Well, my old HD8 rev B was focusing much and much better than this ones! 
I mean that the edge lines are like a finger wide!
On the tube, it's not easy because when I set contrast under 30/20 to see directly on the tube, the blooming decrease a lot and I can see the dots all over the screen, and on the tube face (so it's not a lens issue I think).
Ciao
A
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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How high do you run contrast?
I always ran my 8000 under 50 contrast to keep it from blooming. what kind of a hissing do you get from the HVPS if you bring up the brightness.
I can't say for sure but these problems could be caused by a dying HVPS
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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The installation was not definitve we was testing it.
I just noted that over 45/50 the lines was blooming a lot.
I can't explain the hissing... When high brightness image is displayed when high contrast is set, the HV PSU start to emit a "fiiiiiiiii" sound, a hiss!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Help with M8000 setup |
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| tony359 wrote: | Uhm... Can be a tube fault? Can 7000hrs tube has poor edge focus?
Unfortunately I never saw a well installed EM set and I can't compare it. The center focus is way better than my 1271, but edge focus is just not acceptable. I thought that perhaps I have to rotate the EM coils to have a better focus with all set at 50...? |
no, at 7000 hours an EM focus tube should still have 90% of it's original focusing ability. You don't rotate the focus coil, you can however loosen the Brass wing-nuts and scoot it around to center the raster but that has nothing to do with the EM focus per-se
| tony359 wrote: |
Good. I was reading Etech on this. Should I use menus for adjusting main V and H size of each colors or are there coils somewhere that I can tweak? |
vertical size in the service menu, H-size is controeld by coils on HDM. You need a special plastic tool to adjust them
Antonio if the HV supply is hissing then it's very likely going bad. You could put the more powerful 8500 HV supply in that machine but you should also add the extra lead-shielding to keep it safe. I'm not sure it's worth fixing that 8000? upgrading to an 8500 is what I would recomend as they are much better machines in every way.
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Draganm for your suggestions.
I have the plastic tools, I used for 1031.
Yes, I was wrong, moving the focus coil just move the rasters.
I'll try adjusting the CPC is the last chance before thinking of someting wrong.
About the 8000/8500, you're right. However the CRT is not mine, a guy next to me just bought it and that's it! I'm just helping on setup.
Ciao
a
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link I'll check it.
About focus: actually I'm not sure. Some sides seems to not adjusting at all, others are adjusting them just slightly...
Ciao
Antonio
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Finland
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Great, I noted it and I'll check it.
CIao
A
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| tony359 wrote: |
I can't explain the hissing... When high brightness image is displayed when high contrast is set, the HV PSU start to emit a "fiiiiiiiii" sound, a hiss! |
I believe your HV supply is bad. Hissing is always HV leakage, which can throw off the HV output by a lot. You might not see flickering in the image, but usually you do as the HV arcs and hisses.
This will also explain your focus problems. Changed HV, even 1Kv off from what it should be will throw the focusing off. Since the tubes draw more current at higher contrast and brightness, I'll bet you have an HV drop as you crank up the settings, which throws the focus off.
Make sure the hiss isn't coming from the HV splitter or HV leads going to the tubes. Disconnect the HV leads going to the tubes one at a time and see if hte problem goes away when one of the tubes is disconnected. If so, it's an HVlead problem. If the Hv supply is the only thing left, then there's no choice but to try swapping it out with another one to try.
Note also that the edge focusing on the Marquees (and all other CRT projectors as well) does not have anywhere near the range of the center focus control. That's normal. It's also normal for the edges to be at 0 or 100 for best focus on many Marquees.
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Curt
Actually seems that increasing the contrast over 60 does not have any effect on the screen. This is what you mean with "I'll bet you have an HV drop as you crank up the settings"?
Can I run the set with all CRT HV leads disconnected?
Ok for focus controls.
Thanks, ciao
Antonio
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes you can, but leave the lead from the HV supply connected in the splitter.
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, thanks. Good advice!
Ciao
Antonio
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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Please make sure you turn off the projector and unplug it every time you disconnect or connect a HV lead and dont put your hand in there while it is running with the leads disconnected. 
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Mac
These advices are never unnecessary!
Ciao
A
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tony359
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 378
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Question: I have an Iscan Pro to be connected to the M8000. Is there a special way to have the M8000 recognise Sync on Green or Composite sync?
I tried the Iscan on my 1271, seems that the RGBHV outputs are not working, only RGBs and RGsB.
Thanks
Antonio
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