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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | | tse wrote: | Only the long/short retrace setting will change the image size relative to the raster size as far as the projector is concerned. Short retrace should give alot of extra raster so the image can be phased over.
Scott |
Exactly.
With a 9500 you will also most likely wind up with the width control maxed (or almost maxed) out. This is a difficult set of adjustments on a Marquee, but it can be done. You also can play with the magnets to move around the raster and image together...
craigr |
Dude, something's still not clicking for me. First of all, short retrace is the only mode I can run otherwise part of the 1080p image gets cut off. To my understanding this is to be expected, at least for marquees - can't speak for others. However, the amount of extra raster is TINY - I have very little wiggle room. Below is a snap from my green tube. It's showing a geometry pattern from my VP (and no, my VP doesn't let me adjust porch), and I turned up the brightness so you can see the raster around the edge of the pic. The jailbars are easily visible (as is the existing burn but ignore that for now).
My Phase is currently set to H:50, V:50. Size is H:50, V:17. Changing size adjusts both the raster and image, so I can't do them individually. And changing phase is almost pointless becaues there's pretty much no where to go.
What am I missing?
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: |
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You need to add more porch pixels in the source.
If you source won't do it...well, you have three choices...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Your source player is a PS3 right? I think a few players have very small porches like your PS3. it looks like its player dependent. Does you VP have a size control at least? You can try to shrink the picture in the raster that way, this will give you more room to expand the raster over the edge of the tube safely while keeping the image smaller and use the VP's size control then to get it to a size where the ringing is now off the tube face, just make sure you dont allow the raster to glow while its over the tube. On my 8000 i had the raster over the tube face by a good 3/4 inch looking at the tube and had the image about 4mm from the tube's edge.
Athanasios
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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In the above Comment by Craig where he mentions width controls he means the individual coil controls on the HDM I think. These need a special non conductive tool to adjust so you wont get zapped by 1000 possible volts. its explained in the manual on how to adjust them. But some times the expansion is not much.
Also there is a jumper under the dauget board that can help , and replacing C50 might also give you some more width if its an older cap. But this is getting into the PJ more and a VP can help best.
Athanasios
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4269
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | In the above Comment by Craig where he mentions width controls he means the individual coil controls on the HDM I think. These need a special non conductive tool to adjust...
Athanasios |
Such as an Allan wrench wrapped in electric tape 
craigr
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: |
Such as an Allan wrench wrapped in electric tape
craigr |
Sorry but nope.. Metallic tool changes coils inductance, also it can get quite warm/hot depending material that wrench has made.
Only use plastic/ceramic tool for that adjustment when projector is running. Metall tool is ok when projector is not running.
schmoe, have you looked is there small jumper in place on HDM, it is under Hor.daughter board. That jumper gives little "extra" widht
Also not if you are trying to adjust those coils on hdm, be wery carefull, those are ferrite metal and that cracks so easy
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Your source player is a PS3 right? I think a few players have very small porches like your PS3. it looks like its player dependent. Does you VP have a size control at least? You can try to shrink the picture in the raster that way, this will give you more room to expand the raster over the edge of the tube safely while keeping the image smaller and use the VP's size control then to get it to a size where the ringing is now off the tube face, just make sure you dont allow the raster to glow while its over the tube. On my 8000 i had the raster over the tube face by a good 3/4 inch looking at the tube and had the image about 4mm from the tube's edge.
Athanasios |
No, I don't own a PS3. My sources are a BluRay player, an Media Center HTPC and an XBox 360, all fed into a DVDO Edge which outputs to an HDFury2. Is it the HDFury that puts the small porch, or my VP?
My VP does have a size control so I can try that route... but doesn't that lower the resolution of my image?
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 1031 wrote: | schmoe, have you looked is there small jumper in place on HDM, it is under Hor.daughter board. That jumper gives little "extra" widht
Also not if you are trying to adjust those coils on hdm, be wery carefull, those are ferrite metal and that cracks so easy |
I read about this jumper on AVS I think. I haven't checked for it yet. Do you remember the jumper number?
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Finland
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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After a little research I found that the parameters for 1080P 60Hz has the horizontal blanking time at 1.886us. The short retrace setting of the Marquee gives a retrace of < 1.8us. So the image will just barely fit on the raster. That seems to be what is happening. Not much can be done other than rescaling the video to give a longer h blank time.
Scott
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | | You need to add more porch pixels in the source. |
I picked up a used VP50Pro, so I can modify porch now. Any suggestions on what numbers I should plug in? I really don't know what most of these custom res values mean. Any good tutorials for this stuff? Thanks.
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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here is what Jarmo wants you to try:
| 1031 wrote: | You need to do "user" resolution from standard resolution thats found at VP-50 output menu. Firts there were adjust that needs to set to "advanced" (found at: menu->config.->user mode) then you can do "user" resolutions from standard 1080P. You must adjust horizontal front-/back porch values until picture fits to screen. Do that with conjunction marquees picture size/phase/blanking adjustments-> first adjust size allmoust max at marquees menu, open side blankings->set phase to mid point-> pull up testpattern from VP-50 (Frame geometry) ->go to VPīs output menu-> format->1080p60> adjust hor.front-/backporch until you can see those picture area lines. When you have adjusted that format comes that "user" format.
Then fine tune with phase(marquee) and horzontal shift(VP50) and dont forget to adjust blankings! and also check that picture still fits on tubeīs face, you dont want to run picture area over tubes edge!
Save that "user resolution" to disp.profile (read also how that display profile works....)
And save that also to marquees recall memory.
That prosedure should work.
I use different disp.profiles for different framerates, so ie. 1080p@60hz has own profile then 1080p@48hz is in different profile.
Here are timings from my setup (VP-50+E-home M8500) 1080P @ 59.94Hz
H-shift=235
H-Size=1920
H-front=183
H-Sync=44 ( maybe is better use wider sync..Mine does work quite ok with this..)
H-Back=235
V-Shift=28
V-Size=1080
V-Front=12
V-sync=5
V-back=20 |
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help. I dabbled with this for a few minutes and it seems to be shifting the image away from the jail bars. Yay. When I have more time I'll do a proper fix with the pj's phase/size settings.
Btw, does it matter what retrace setting I use? Should I put it back on Long before I start tweaking porch? Right now it's on Short because it's the only setting that lets me see the entire 1080p image out of the box.
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schmoe
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 374
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Set retrace back to Long, started with the values that Jarmo used and kept modifying until I got my entire image in view. Here are the values I ended up with. Let me know if anything looks funny:
H-shift: 329
H-size: 1920
H-front: 115
H-sync: 44
H-back: 329
V-shift: 44
V-size: 1080
V-front: 4
V-sync: 5
V-back: 20
No jail bars!
Btw, I didn't mess with the framerate settings myself but I noticed it's currently around 56.xx (can't remember the fractional part). Is this OK? Shouldn't it be closer to 59/60? Can't seem to change it either, but I didn't play with it much.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:08 am Post subject: |
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Umm yeah, the framerate should be 59.94hz.
Or, if like me the judder drives you nuts, one of 47.952, or 71.928hz.
You're close, you're really close now.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | Umm yeah, the framerate should be 59.94hz.
Or, if like me the judder drives you nuts, one of 47.952, or 71.928hz.
You're close, you're really close now. |
I noticed this also recently with the marquee, on my TV-One units i will set up the timings and make sure the frame rate is as mark says but the marquee will show a different timing.... not sure whats going on? Do i trust the Scaler or the Marquee?
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, I didn't realise the Marquee and the source were different.
I'd believe the Marquee - unless there is a known issue with the oscillator reporting the wrong frequency?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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