|
As this forum is rarely used anymore, we've locked it. Feel free to browse and read. Questions? Please reach out to us directly. Cheers! |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Hypno89
Joined: 06 Aug 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Czech Republic, Prague
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Hulio
Joined: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 494
Location: Belgium
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
240. Cine 9 (CineMax) have a software limitation of 210 Hz, in order to run the fans less loud.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HaydnG90
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1356
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | Other than very specific simulator applications, why would you want to use 240Hz let alone 210Hz or anything over 60? (or maybe 120 if you game).
Kal |
72Hz was a noticeable improvement over 60Hz on the G90. Sharper, more saturated colors. I wouldn't go back. I believe there were also some advantages with the interpolation of native 24fps out of the bluray player with 72Hz vs 60Hz.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 6:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't doubt what you're saying, but why would refresh rate affect sharpness and colour saturation. They shouldn't.
In fact, sharpness should decrease as with higher refresh rate the raster is now moving faster and the slew rate (rise/fall time) needs to be shorter but it will be more rounded on the rise/fall given the faster speed, so less sharp.
Colour is completely different.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hypno89
Joined: 06 Aug 2020
Posts: 13
Location: Czech Republic, Prague
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hulio wrote: | | 240. Cine 9 (CineMax) have a software limitation of 210 Hz, in order to run the fans less loud. |
Thank you 
| Kal wrote: | Other than very specific simulator applications, why would you want to use 240Hz let alone 210Hz or anything over 60? (or maybe 120 if you game).
Kal |
The latter option  However, since I still want to achieve a solid resolution, blending would be required, which makes this hobby attempt quite challenging.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2025 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | Other than very specific simulator applications, why would you want to use 240Hz let alone 210Hz or anything over 60? (or maybe 120 if you game).
Kal |
Because you can, and because it actually works on a CRT. Makes sweet FA difference on most digitals.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2025 12:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Because you can" isn't much of a valid reason. 
The higher the refresh rate on analog signals like what's used in CRT projectors the softer the image gets as the raster and other analog circuitry doesn't have time to change state as sharply. So edge transitions are softer. It's like driving down the road and wanting to turn 90 degrees left or right from one street to another. If you're doing 5 km/h you can turn a lot sharper than if you're doing 50 km/h.
Digitals don't have this issue (directly). They can either do it or they can't.
Refresh rate on digitals does matter for some uses, like gaming. Just like gaming monitors (digital) there are many higher refresh rate digital projectors that can do up to about 240Hz. Gaming monitors go up to about 480Hz.
High refresh rates in games leads to reduced motion blur, improved control, and a lower perception of input lag. Mostly noticeable in fast-paced games.
I game on my JVC NZ7 which can do up to 4K/120Hz though the types of games I play aren't face paced (usually) so I really don't care. High refresh rate wasn't one of my needs when I bought this projector.
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
virusc
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 358
Location: Massachusetts
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2025 10:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
If you even want to try going over 72hz I hope you have a fast phosphor Green tube right which is very rare and lowers light output? Also you are aware even if you wanted to try out 200hz it is at 480p maybe. The high refresh rate is for special use not even for simulators but for probably taking pictures of the screen synced for high frame rate for slow motion or something. Practically over 120hz has no use. Even 144hz on a CRT for 3d you would be better off with a lower rate it is going to ruin picture quality for no improvement.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 11:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | "Because you can" isn't much of a valid reason.
The higher the refresh rate on analog signals like what's used in CRT projectors the softer the image gets as the raster and other analog circuitry doesn't have time to change state as sharply. So edge transitions are softer. It's like driving down the road and wanting to turn 90 degrees left or right from one street to another. If you're doing 5 km/h you can turn a lot sharper than if you're doing 50 km/h.
Digitals don't have this issue (directly). They can either do it or they can't.
Refresh rate on digitals does matter for some uses, like gaming. Just like gaming monitors (digital) there are many higher refresh rate digital projectors that can do up to about 240Hz. Gaming monitors go up to about 480Hz.
High refresh rates in games leads to reduced motion blur, improved control, and a lower perception of input lag. Mostly noticeable in fast-paced games.
I game on my JVC NZ7 which can do up to 4K/120Hz though the types of games I play aren't face paced (usually) so I really don't care. High refresh rate wasn't one of my needs when I bought this projector.
Kal |
Not sure why you're explaining all this to me Kal, i'm a 54 year old man, been gaming since the begining of time 
Good luck getting any digital to refresh at 480Hz and look any different to 240Hz, it's probably interpolated at that.
The thing about input lag is CRTs don't have it, all digitals do.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Not sure why you're explaining all this to me Kal, i'm a 54 year old man, been gaming since the begining of time |
I have you beat by 1 year.
The problem is you haven't kept up with technology and you're talking gaming from ~10-20 years ago. I probably game exactly like you (I have zero interest in high refresh twitch games) but that doesn't mean higher refresh rate doesn't exist and make sense sometimes.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Good luck getting any digital to refresh at 480Hz and look any different to 240Hz, it's probably interpolated at that. |
Some gaming monitors now will do 480Hz. It's not for the sort of games I like to play (or probably the ones you play), but for esports players playing "twitch" games with high end GPUs it can and does make a difference. It's not interpolated. I'm not sure why you'd think that. Using something like DLSS (on Nvidia GPU) or FSR (AMD GPUs) adds input latency so these twitch gamers wouldn't use it.
I have zero interest in these sorts of games at that refresh rate (as probably do you as mentioned) but you should do some research into what exists today even if it's not what you like to play as these things do exist and do matter to some people. Competitive gamers playing (for example) COD or LOL will lower settings and even resolution to hit higher refresh rates because that's what helps when it comes to winning esports.
None of this existed not that long ago so it doesn't matter how long you've been gaming. If you haven't kept up with what some gamers are doing it's normal that you wouldn't know as you have no interest. I certainly don't care - I'm happy with a "low" 60fps as I don't play competitive and have zero interest in it. I prefer big open world games where this doesn’t matter. Recent ones I spend hundreds of hours on include RDR2, Starfield (boring unfortunately) and Cyberpunk 2077. Looking forward to replaying the remastered version of TES Oblivion next. What are you playing?
Kal
_________________
Support our site by using our affiliate links. We thank you!
My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2025 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kal wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Not sure why you're explaining all this to me Kal, i'm a 54 year old man, been gaming since the begining of time |
I have you beat by 1 year.
The problem is you haven't kept up with technology and you're talking gaming from ~10-20 years ago. I probably game exactly like you (I have zero interest in high refresh twitch games) but that doesn't mean higher refresh rate doesn't exist and make sense sometimes.
| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Good luck getting any digital to refresh at 480Hz and look any different to 240Hz, it's probably interpolated at that. |
Some gaming monitors now will do 480Hz. It's not for the sort of games I like to play (or probably the ones you play), but for esports players playing "twitch" games with high end GPUs it can and does make a difference. It's not interpolated. I'm not sure why you'd think that. Using something like DLSS (on Nvidia GPU) or FSR (AMD GPUs) adds input latency so these twitch gamers wouldn't use it.
I have zero interest in these sorts of games at that refresh rate (as probably do you as mentioned) but you should do some research into what exists today even if it's not what you like to play as these things do exist and do matter to some people. Competitive gamers playing (for example) COD or LOL will lower settings and even resolution to hit higher refresh rates because that's what helps when it comes to winning esports.
None of this existed not that long ago so it doesn't matter how long you've been gaming. If you haven't kept up with what some gamers are doing it's normal that you wouldn't know as you have no interest. I certainly don't care - I'm happy with a "low" 60fps as I don't play competitive and have zero interest in it. I prefer big open world games where this doesn’t matter. Recent ones I spend hundreds of hours on include RDR2, Starfield (boring unfortunately) and Cyberpunk 2077. Looking forward to replaying the remastered version of TES Oblivion next. What are you playing?
Kal |
For anything new, i'm VR sim racing only, Assetto Corsa Competizione mostly, but a bit of rFactor 2 and some Automobilista 2 from time to time if i don't feel like a competition race. I do play the last 3 Tomb Raider games, at 4096x2160 on my Sony SXRD, but haven't had any interest in anything else newish. The 570ES only has about 28ms input delay so it is better than majority of TVs probably are. Still not nearly as good as the zero input delay on the Barco, but for modern games programed with lag in mind that is still well under where it really needs to be for Mario Kart.
If i'm playing console games, in this order, it'll be NEO-GEO, Mega Drive, Master System, 3DO, Saturn, PS1, WiiU, Switch, PC Engine, NES, SNES, Atari 2600, and maybe Dreamcast and PS2. All on the Barco, or on a 68cm Sony CRT TV, all using RGB direct from the console except the WiiU and Switch for obvious reasons.
Out of all that, the WiiU and Switch are the only two that will ever get used on the 4K SXRD projector, but truth be told they look every bit as good on my Barco Cine 9 anyway because the blacks are still better. Both projectors are on the same 135" 16:9 screen, with the Barco dead center and the Sony sitting beside it due to it's brilliant lens shift abilities.
_________________
Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|
