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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:44 pm Post subject: G70 vs 808s throw distance |
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'Sup guys?
Sooo, I'm finally swapping out the 808s for the G70 I got... well, not recently anymore. But that I got. It was gotten by me.
Most of the mount switching is done (I used unistrut and some aluminum bits to put it together) so I just need to decide where I'm gonna position it. The 808s had pretty optimal position for tube usage; the question now is where I stick the G70. Too close and I can't fill the screen or my adjustments start to get wonky; too far back and I lose resolution and brightness. I've only got a foot or so of latitude; is that going to make an appreciable difference?
Back in the day, of course, I would have known the answers to these questions, but you'll forgive me for being a bit rusty. It has been a while. 
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:27 am Post subject: Re: G70 vs 808s throw distance |
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| perisoft wrote: | 'Sup guys?
Sooo, I'm finally swapping out the 808s for the G70 I got... well, not recently anymore. But that I got. It was gotten by me.
Most of the mount switching is done (I used unistrut and some aluminum bits to put it together) so I just need to decide where I'm gonna position it. The 808s had pretty optimal position for tube usage; the question now is where I stick the G70. Too close and I can't fill the screen or my adjustments start to get wonky; too far back and I lose resolution and brightness. I've only got a foot or so of latitude; is that going to make an appreciable difference?
Back in the day, of course, I would have known the answers to these questions, but you'll forgive me for being a bit rusty. It has been a while. |
Wow we though you crashed too hard in one of your simulators and died.  Good to see you back.
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CRT.
HD done right!
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs 808s throw distance |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | perisoft wrote: | 'Sup guys?
Sooo, I'm finally swapping out the 808s for the G70 I got... well, not recently anymore. But that I got. It was gotten by me.
Most of the mount switching is done (I used unistrut and some aluminum bits to put it together) so I just need to decide where I'm gonna position it. The 808s had pretty optimal position for tube usage; the question now is where I stick the G70. Too close and I can't fill the screen or my adjustments start to get wonky; too far back and I lose resolution and brightness. I've only got a foot or so of latitude; is that going to make an appreciable difference?
Back in the day, of course, I would have known the answers to these questions, but you'll forgive me for being a bit rusty. It has been a while. |
Wow we though you crashed too hard in one of your simulators and died. Good to see you back. |
Nah, though I did have a dude run me off the road at 85 in the loop in our Miata at Watkins Glen in real life, cutting a tire down, so that was fun.
Been doing some other stuff. Trying to stay in business. Having another kid. Doing art. HT fell by the wayside for a long time but I'm getting stuff going again, finally.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs 808s throw distance |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Most of the mount switching is done (I used unistrut and some aluminum bits to put it together) so I just need to decide where I'm gonna position it. The 808s had pretty optimal position for tube usage; the question now is where I stick the G70. Too close and I can't fill the screen or my adjustments start to get wonky; too far back and I lose resolution and brightness. I've only got a foot or so of latitude; is that going to make an appreciable difference? |
Perisoft!!! Hey, what's up? Hope all's well in your world!
Your post didn't say whether that foot of latitude you have from the unistrut is adequate, or if it isn't, which way you're confined... But, ideally, the active image portion of the raster fills most of the tube. On mine, the largest part of the active image portion of the raster was a quarter-inch or so from the edge of the tube. Some people push it even further than that in a quest to "maximize the raster", but focus and geometry suffer - especially in the corners. Much further back from optimal, and the tubes will wear faster and you'll have a little less sharpness/resolution.
Can you set the G70 up on the floor (ideally roughly the same distance/offset form the screen as it will be on the ceiling and find the ideal location?
Cheers,
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs 808s throw distance |
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| perisoft wrote: | Nah, though I did have a dude run me off the road at 85 in the loop in our Miata at Watkins Glen in real life, cutting a tire down, so that was fun.
Been doing some other stuff. Trying to stay in business. Having another kid. Doing art. HT fell by the wayside for a long time but I'm getting stuff going again, finally. |
Yikes! Well, if it's any consolation, I'd rather get run off at Watkins Glen than never have driven at Watkins Glen at all. 
Congrats on the child! Fun!
Cheers,
SC
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs 808s throw distance |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
Perisoft!!! Hey, what's up? Hope all's well in your world! |
I don't know that *all's* well, but enough of it is. The new kid is great (a girl!), the racing is fun, the business is still in business and we're about to put on a push. So yeah.
| Quote: |
Your post didn't say whether that foot of latitude you have from the unistrut is adequate, or if it isn't, which way you're confined... But, ideally, the active image portion of the raster fills most of the tube. On mine, the largest part of the active image portion of the raster was a quarter-inch or so from the edge of the tube. Some people push it even further than that in a quest to "maximize the raster", but focus and geometry suffer - especially in the corners. Much further back from optimal, and the tubes will wear faster and you'll have a little less sharpness/resolution.
Can you set the G70 up on the floor (ideally roughly the same distance/offset form the screen as it will be on the ceiling and find the ideal location?
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Well, that's what I'm not sure about, since I don't know whether the G70 and the 808 have approximately the same lens-to-screen specs for a given size. I know that most PJs are similar in that regard but figured I should check.
I can indeed set it up on the floor and check things out first, which is probably what I'll do, but I figured I might as well poke the beehive and see if anyone had specific confirmation of how comparable the setups are.
I see a lot of the old crew seems to still be kicking around. Is everyone running digitals now and they're just here for old times' sake or is the hobby still clinging to life? 
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Oook, looks like I want it as far forward as I can get it. The 808 was a little bit back because I was working within an existing wear pattern. If I mount the G70 as far forward as I can manage with my existing mounts I may have a bit more than a quarter inch to work with, but it's not bad at all.
Now I just need to drill some new holes in my mount, flip the sucker over, and heave ho until it's up there. May god have mercy on my soul!
Edit: This sucker's way brighter than the Barco. I swear I turned this thing on for the first time in five years and within two minutes it looked better than the Barco would after 30 minutes of screwing around with flapping and focus. It's like going from a Model T to a... well, not to a new S-Class, but at least to something with automatic choke and fuel injection!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Well, that's what I'm not sure about, since I don't know whether the G70 and the 808 have approximately the same lens-to-screen specs for a given size. I know that most PJs are similar in that regard but figured I should check. |
Yeah, the throw is different between the lenses on the 808 and the G70, but not hugely different. Based on your comments, it sounds like the throw on the G70's HD18's is slightly shorter than the throw on the HD8's the 808 had.
| perisoft wrote: | | I see a lot of the old crew seems to still be kicking around. Is everyone running digitals now and they're just here for old times' sake or is the hobby still clinging to life? |
Yeah, most of the old regulars are still around. Some have switched and still hang around, some are still running CRT's, and some have just moved on.
I sold my G70 and bought a JVC RS45 in 2012. I loved it. Then, I sold my house and theater and moved from Iowa to Utah. I'm saving money to rebuild my theater, hopefully not too far in the distant future.
| perisoft wrote: | | Oook, looks like I want it as far forward as I can get it. The 808 was a little bit back because I was working within an existing wear pattern. If I mount the G70 as far forward as I can manage with my existing mounts I may have a bit more than a quarter inch to work with, but it's not bad at all. |
Sounds good!
| perisoft wrote: | | Now I just need to drill some new holes in my mount, flip the sucker over, and heave ho until it's up there. May god have mercy on my soul! |
Get help! Preferably three people, but two will do as long as you're both the same height and relatively strong. The G70 is frickin' heavy. It's like 150 pounds or something. Just heavy and cumbersome enough, it's pretty tricky to get over your head and get bolted up. Be careful!
| perisoft wrote: | | Edit: This sucker's way brighter than the Barco. I swear I turned this thing on for the first time in five years and within two minutes it looked better than the Barco would after 30 minutes of screwing around with flapping and focus. It's like going from a Model T to a... well, not to a new S-Class, but at least to something with automatic choke and fuel injection! |
Yeah, I remember when I went from my low-hour 1271 to the G70. Huge difference. Not only brighter, but WAY sharper. You're jumping from the middle of the road, to the low end of the high-end. I'd say if you're careful with setup and focus and don't run it too bright, the G70 will probably be sharper at 1080p than the 808 was at 720p. The G70 really made Blu-ray shine!
Congrats on the girl! I have one of each, too. Enjoy it while it lasts! Time flies!!!
Cheers,
SC
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:05 am Post subject: |
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I've got four clamp straps (like ratchet straps but they slide and grab) so lifting it should be a relative piece of cake. Only tricky bit is that I need to do X-patterns for the straps so they retain enough length.
Got the rest of the mount set up tonight, ready to get hoisted. I think I'll save that for tomorrow though!
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Pro tip on the G70 setup. There's a function in the installers manual (page 95?) about saving all registration. This seems to trip most people up because most people's sets won't do this if you follow the instructions in the manual. It's irritating as all hell, but after some serious digging online, it seems that the solution is to actually wire your wireless remote up in the back of the set (use a standard 3.5 mm stereo jack), go into the ZONE adjustment, and THEN press and hold SAVE for five seconds like the manual says. Then, the function actually works! No idea why, but on my set, this is the only way to get the function to work reliably. It absolutely will not work on the keypad that's built into the set, and if I don't connect the wireless remote, it's only done the save all registration I think twice out of trying it for many times.
It's a nifty feature that more-or-less saves all of your data as standard registration so that when you switch inputs or resolution modes, you don't have to start from scratch. Have fun!
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: | Pro tip on the G70 setup. There's a function in the installers manual (page 95?) about saving all registration. This seems to trip most people up because most people's sets won't do this if you follow the instructions in the manual. It's irritating as all hell, but after some serious digging online, it seems that the solution is to actually wire your wireless remote up in the back of the set (use a standard 3.5 mm stereo jack), go into the ZONE adjustment, and THEN press and hold SAVE for five seconds like the manual says. Then, the function actually works! No idea why, but on my set, this is the only way to get the function to work reliably. It absolutely will not work on the keypad that's built into the set, and if I don't connect the wireless remote, it's only done the save all registration I think twice out of trying it for many times.
It's a nifty feature that more-or-less saves all of your data as standard registration so that when you switch inputs or resolution modes, you don't have to start from scratch. Have fun! |
Ooh, that sounds handy. Thanks!
I got it up!
Ahem, I mean... it's on the ceiling. Physical alignment appears pretty good, so I think my next step is to start getting the rest of the room together again so I can see the whole screen... Will update when I have some test patterns... 
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | jbltecnicspro wrote: | Pro tip on the G70 setup. There's a function in the installers manual (page 95?) about saving all registration. This seems to trip most people up because most people's sets won't do this if you follow the instructions in the manual. It's irritating as all hell, but after some serious digging online, it seems that the solution is to actually wire your wireless remote up in the back of the set (use a standard 3.5 mm stereo jack), go into the ZONE adjustment, and THEN press and hold SAVE for five seconds like the manual says. Then, the function actually works! No idea why, but on my set, this is the only way to get the function to work reliably. It absolutely will not work on the keypad that's built into the set, and if I don't connect the wireless remote, it's only done the save all registration I think twice out of trying it for many times.
It's a nifty feature that more-or-less saves all of your data as standard registration so that when you switch inputs or resolution modes, you don't have to start from scratch. Have fun! |
Ooh, that sounds handy. Thanks!
I got it up!
Ahem, I mean... it's on the ceiling. Physical alignment appears pretty good, so I think my next step is to start getting the rest of the room together again so I can see the whole screen... Will update when I have some test patterns... |
No problem! Other pro-tip, if you need to adjust the deflection yokes to get everything correct with SKEW at mid-point, set the deflection yokes and close that damn cover immediately!
I'm actually waiting on a PA board repair from Curt because I suspect I damaged my PA board by leaving the cover open for too long. I'm talking a few hours, which (in hindsight) was stupid as hell. But what can I say? Newbie mistake.
I suspect that I compromised the cooling system because the way the projector seems to be designed, the three fans act as both intake and exhaust, and that the lid helps create a wind tunnel. By leaving the cover open, that wind tunnel is effectively gone. Adjusting the deflection yoke shouldn't take that much time. Basically - after you null everything up (reset everything to mid point), you would turn the deflection until midpoint (128) on the SKEW adjustment (using the crosshair pattern) has the horizontal line running parallel to the screen.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Good point on airflow; I'll keep it in mind. Luckily my PJ was previously owned by a HT guy who knew his stuff, so most of the basic setup is good. And the tubes are absolutely pristine. Looking forward to getting it going!
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Good point on airflow; I'll keep it in mind. Luckily my PJ was previously owned by a HT guy who knew his stuff, so most of the basic setup is good. And the tubes are absolutely pristine. Looking forward to getting it going! |
You'll love it. A very generous member gave me two G70's and one of them had fantastic tubes with lower hours. It looks sweet. Most would agree that the G70's default contrast and brightness output are overkill, and you don't need it cranked that high to enjoy a good and bright picture.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Well, this thing is officially awesome. 45 minutes of setup from zero with a totally half-assed optical and barely any magnetic focus, and a super quick-and-dirty calibration at 1080p72 (!) and it look as good as I ever got the 808. The color is a little on the cool side but tracking is super nice with zero effort. Reminds me why I was so into CRTs, and I watched half of The Fifth Element before I knew it...
Any tips on grey tracking and focus? Should I be running it at p48 or i72?
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I can't comment on grey tracking and focus - I'm interested in hearing others' opinions as well. As for resolution - does it flicker at 48 hz? If you're going interlaced, you probably shouldn't do i72 but i96, as it evenly divides into 24. i72 - 72 fields per second - is equivalent to 36 frames per second.
But yeah, an easy way to sharpen up the picture of a CRT is to lower your vertical refresh. I'm using a Sony Artisan right now - 0.24mm dot pitch. It's a bit soft (I think that's because it's mainly a photo monitor). 1920x1440 isn't super doable with text and internet surfing at its default 85hz. But take it down to 72hz and all of a sudden, it's sharp enough to read text.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Windows 7 does *not* like being off for five years and then fired up again, I'll tell you that much. It's currently chewing on a service pack; hopefully it hasn't roached itself. If not I'll try 48. I personally kinda liked the flicker of 48p on the barco because it was quite similar to film flicker - which, of course, no longer exists, because nobody uses film. So I might stick with i96. I'm not sure my cabling has the bandwidth for p72 even if the PJ does.
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