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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: Post your projectors bandwidth using the SMPTE Pattern |
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With all the fuss about bandwidth and such. I thought I would post a few shots showing a video chain of mine using an Marquee 02 VIM on my highest bandwidth neck boards.
But since many may not have the generator to really do these test. Just use the SMPTE at whatever scan rate you run your projector and let's see what your SMPTE looks like..
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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SEOS 808s 1080p@60. I will get some during the week of 817@72
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: |
Now this all happened before I was able to get the chip (AD835) to perform up to 300mhz flawlessly (this one you know nothing about).
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From the datasheet:
The AD835 is the first monolithic 250 MHz, four-quadrant voltage output multiplier.
This means -3db at 250 MHz. Did you mean Mega Pixel perhaps? Your measuring device says only M meaning Mega pixel.
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD835.pdf
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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But you got lucky with those neckboards I must admit. Some of them are very good indeed. Perhaps a little changing on the overshoot and voila!
I am not just saying this. I tested a lot of neckboards and they are not all equal. Little differences in gain and paracitic capacitance cause bandwidth to drop and compensation networks to be off. So I think it would be possible for you to find the exact right compensation but the actual practise of the boards that I bought and what I hear from others teach me that you only have a few high bandwidth boards and are not capable of making every board high bandwidth.
| mp20748 wrote: |
I've been doing mods to the Marquee maybe 10 years or more, but one of the things I forget to mention a lot is that the modifications I do to previously owned stock boards cannot guarantee perfection on the resolution patterns. The modification does not replace all and any worn or otherwise not perfect component on the boards.
In your case, you sent me a set of neck boards that one or maybe two were not of the same vintage (the color difference of the connector). And in a lot of previous use, these boards were being used in applications where they were used 24/7. Or in high temperature environments, and this is when we see the two larger resistors showing burn or heat damage to the boards. Though this was not the case with your boards, that does not mean they were perfectly matched or did not have previous issues. I used to ask specifics before someone sent me their boards to try and make sure they could make for the absolute best end results.
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https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=36723.html
So in my case where I send 2005 neckboards and everyone has seen the pictures how good they looked it was not possible to make then high bandwidth and I know at least one other case.
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Last edited by redfox001 on Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to see a scope reading of the video in three spots, before it goes into the vim, right after the vim at the mini rca's out, and after the 33 Ohm resistors or the L5 inductor on the VNB just to compare what each stage does to the signal.
Using the Multi-burst pattern.
You would need at least a 300mhz scope tho.
Nashou
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Guys the thread is about YOU posting the SMPTE of your setup.
And while you're at it, you can also post shots of any pattern you want, to include the multiburst pattern. BTW, is not considered a proper rule for bandwidth testing. A better test would be a square wave/rise fall timings.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | But you got lucky with those neckboards I must admit. Some of them are very good indeed. Perhaps a little changing on the overshoot and voila!
I am not just saying this. I tested a lot of neckboards and they are not all equal. Little differences in gain and paracitic capacitance cause bandwidth to drop and compensation networks to be off. So I think it would be possible for you to find the exact right compensation but the actual practise of the boards that I bought and what I hear from others teach me that you only have a few high bandwidth boards and are not capable of making every board high bandwidth |
Not sure what you mean here by you testing a lot of neck boards and found inconsistencies in them. Who had my boards and shipped them to you to test and you reported bandwidth problems that I was never informed of?
You should just be honest and say how you were not wise by messing with the boards without my permission, because other than the gain problem you complained about and got solved, in the link you posted you seem to be very happy with them:
| redfox001 wrote: | There is some progress here.
There was some problems with the gain of the neckboards that needed to be solved.
Today I watched a part of one of the Hobbit films and man that looked detailed and sharp. Also something incredible happening in the blacklevels. Bad convergence, bad focus, bad astig but already very detailed sharp.
Hopefully it is stable as this is an image I want to see more of  |
| redfox001 wrote: | Ok done a reasonable setup so I can judge what I got from Mike.
Mike I do not know how you did it but there is a huge level of extra levels of detail. It seems like there is a gamma boost that shows much more blacklevel information but there is also a gamma boost in the clouds and in the sky. At the begin of Baraka I looked amazed at those clouds that I never saw before. I do not know how this is called perhaps dynamic range but is more dynamic detail.
This also results in sharpness, incredible sharpness. One more thing that stood out was depth. Again I do not know how but the depth was so deep that I now and than felt drawn into the pic and felt fear of heights. Never had that so much before.
This incredible picture that brings out so more information and I think is pretty unique in the world together with the low level of sound the Marquee makes now makes me feel the impossible has come true. When I look at the ugly small Marquee and I compare to the Cine Max it looks as if a VW has just beaten a Ferrari (but with the case on the Marquee might look better)
It was a long wait for these boards but it is certainly worth every minute. |
| redfox001 wrote: | Still no final judgement. The Marquee has a problem with the neckboards but shows a level of detail that is fascinating. With gravity the Marquee revealed the star nebula in a way I have not seen before.
But the Cine Max has a foreground sharpness that is not yet beaten and that makes the picture look very good too. So I have to do the focusboard mod and maybe the focus coils on the Marquee.
Still it is a feast for the eye to see the levels of detail on the Marquee. I want that with perfect foreground sharpness.
At this moment I could very well life with both CRT's.
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| Quote: | | So in my case where I send 2005 neckboards and everyone has seen the pictures how good they looked it was not possible to make then high bandwidth and I know at least one other case. |
How many times do I have to remind you that you sent me two 2005 board and one was not matched but older. Don't forget you also posted that happened and it's well into our emails...so you had ONE board that had a problem, and you also had ONE board that was NOT 2005 and was very different -- this is FACT. How can you keep forgetting this facts?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Curt why is he allowed to post this aggressive crab over and over again?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Here more facts. A recent picture from the wolfman having a fully Mike Parker modified video chain. Stolen from some other forum.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | Here more facts. A recent picture from the wolfman having a fully Mike Parker modified video chain. Stolen from some other forum.
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He told me the problem was his older DVI card. Not much I can do about that can I
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Oh his dvi works well on blue but not on red and green and is a recent moome hdmi. Strange I see a more likely explanation.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | Oh his dvi works well on blue but not on red and green and is a recent moome hdmi. Strange I see a more likely explanation. |
All I've heard from him what that his previous problem was caused from the older DVI card he was using. So if he was having any problems wit the boards beyond that. I know nothing about it, he did not let me know. And I had told him that he could get an upgrade and I would ask Kurt to do it on that end, but I've not heard back from him. His boards just like the rest are still under warranty. So if there is a problem I'll take care of it, no question. But I can't address what I don't know anything about.
And I have no idea what's going on in those shots. I do know that he switches boards around, and I don't know what combination he has there. So if there is a problem with his boards, all he has to do is let me know. I can get things solved from that side of the pond.
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gregstv
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Fox let it go. You said it all before. If you still have an issue with Mike's boards, take it up with him off line.
Post some shots from your Barco and have some fun. PLEASE.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2257
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I have an issue with people buying boards and expecting high bandwidth but not getting it. But I said enough.
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I have an issue with people buying boards and expecting high bandwidth but not getting it. |
And I have an issue with people tampering with boards when they are told not to and then whining about their problems endlessly all over the damn internet. You burned your bridge with MP and now you are just sour. Either post some screen shots or just stay out of the thread.
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Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| redfox001 wrote: | | I have an issue with people buying boards and expecting high bandwidth but not getting it. |
Well, I'll tell you what I told you almost two years ago when you got them from me. I do not guarantee that they will do the smpte pattern well. And my reason was because there is no way I would be able to do that. Not all Blu Ray players do well with the pattern. I have an Samsung here that I hold onto for that purpose to prove that you can't trust the Blu Ray players. Another reason is that a projector would need proper stig and focus or it won't do the pattern properly, and that's the main reason.
However, and once more reminding you, if they work as well as you claimed them to work, enjoy that. And if you feel you'll want to look at the pattern as being important I would work with you on that, but I can't guarantee anyone that the pattern will simply work in their projector. To include, there are or were some CRT's that were made with phosphor problems. And not being able to know and work around that, that became another reason. And this one is one of my favorites. if you have a Blu Ray player or HTPC that has a lot of tweaks in it, that stuff will for sure mess up the pattern. So at no time with no one have I included or promised anyone that the mods will make that pattern right.
So if you purchased a set of the boards just like so many others have done over the years, enjoy them for the tremendous improvement they are known to bring (and you acknowledged), and if that pattern is important, I can work with you to point out all the rest that needs to happen to get your setup properly situated for it. I only knew of a few people where it was a plug and play. And when it was, it was always because the person knew the Marquee so well, they could properly dial it in and make sure everything else was where it was supposed to be.
you, on the other hand could not wait, so you took it on yourself to work on the boards as to fix the problem yourself. Well, if you suspect a problem, and I offer to correct it, and you decide you'll want to do it yourself. Then why get upset with me for not accepting your fiddling with the boards without my help or permission.
Wolfman and everyone else, the boards are under warrantee. My warranty is not one year, two year, six month or the standard 3 months. I just take care of it, as I've always done. But if you mess with my work, I'm out.
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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 490
Location: Germany/Saarland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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I get myself a beer sit here and wait until Curt comes by and makes them open up another thread to fight each other.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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This one from Strids
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Hi Mike.
After some time with the latest mods, wich features the direct coupled reference level from the dac, and the new miniboard/02vim design true the video chain, i can say it has made a huge improvement in image clarity, somthing i never noticed that i was missing with the set of mods i already had, but there is no return from this one.
There is no comparison to older mods, wich all have offered quite big steps in performance upgrade, but this just blows it all out of the water.
Ill go so far to claim these boards in a well setup Marquee is the best home theater experience i ever had.
I addet some screenshots of reference material, and testpatterns, wich you can use as a proof of performance, and future reference.
Best regards.
Kurt ( stridsvognen)
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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This is another one from someone who purchased the Mods. And it's another shot from one of those very well setup Marquees.
However, only a few of my customers had any interest in the SMPTE pattern. They're not the tweaking type.
But, my hope for this thread was for anyone to post the SMPTE or any other test pattern or shots as well..
1920X1080P /72hz
imgurl
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