CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[hardisj]

Hey, fellas. First time posting here. Actually just signed up now (after a while of dropping around reading) because I really would appreciate some feedback on a potential purchase and I need help from experts on the subject.

There is a fella who is selling a pair of the Sony VPH-G90 projectors. He lives approximately 6 hours from me. I spoke with him on the phone earlier and it boils down to this:
The original owner just went through a divorce and she just wants all her ex's stuff gone. The gentleman selling the PJs is doing so as a favor because his wife is friends with the original owner.
The PJs were used together to project one image in a home theater of two doctors (the original owner and her ex-husband).
He doesn't have the original cords. He didn't think to remove them from the home.
He also doesn't have the remotes.
He does have one of the original ceiling mounts.
Because of the lack of remote, He cannot tell me how many hours are on the tubes of either PJ. He mentioned he will contact the owner and see if she can locate the remotes. He still questioned how he'd find that info because he doesn't have a screen to project on to (showing his inexperience), to which I advised he could just project on to any wall.
He is a businessman in the area (I've done my sleuthing), and seems completely honest in the fact that he really doesn't know what he has nor the details of the items. Other than they worked when he went to take them down. He's just trying to sell them for this lady as a favor.

After explaining my concerns to him (such as the potentially high tube life, the certainty of replacing the Dallas chips, and just general condition) he said he understood and if I could take them off his hands he'd let them go for $1250/pair.

Normally I would have put the car in drive and headed out on down, but the issue of not knowing the bulb life is the major concern. My research indicates a single replacement tube are $1230 from Eisemann Theater (there may be other options I'm not aware of). So, if the bulbs are on the verge of replacement, the cost of replacements would almost bankrupt me! lol.

He did provide cell phone photos and the condition of both looks quite good, cosmetically speaking. Which backs up the story of them being in a personal HT. But I'm still left with the uncertainty of bulb life.

I know I can purchase a remote via eBay. Best case scenario they both have relatively low lamp life and function flawlessly. Given my use is personal HT, I'll still have to buy the HDMI card which is going to run me another $300/each. Then the Dallas chip is $40. I do understand the maintenance required, but if the PQ is there, I'm fine with that aspect.

My question to you guys is simply this:
Given the uncertainty, buying site unseen at $625/each, what would you do? From talking to him, I don't know if he'll be able to source the remotes from the owner to provide me the tube hours. I'm in a bit of a quandary here. Especially considering I was going to original just purchase a new Sony HW40ES digital PJ.

Thanks in advance,
Erin

[cmjohnson]

Worst case scenario, they're worth that much in parts value even if the tubes are roasted. I see no down side to buying them at that price. It can only get better if they're not roasted.

[hal]

Here is my take on the Sony G90's....

1) Great unit when it is up and running. However, as these machines age they need to be repaired at great cost..

2) Tube life is important, finding the information to remove the lenses to view the condition is required. It is not a simple bulb change to replace the CRT tube.

3) Like Curt has mentioned, the green tubes on the Sony have wear after 1200 to 1500 hours. You might be looking at a replacement green tube.

4) I own 3 Sony G90's I bought 1 as a parts machine. I have used a lot of the parts keeping two machines running. Infact Curt recently repaired one of my machines (1800 hours). I swapped the PA and PB board only to find that my spare board was toast..

5) The dreaded YA board.

https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=14696.html

I have a sour taste in my mouth now that I have two LOW hour machines that require monies to upkeep. Tubes are good, but the thought of a YA board crapping out would push me to digital.. Spending $1000 on a surplus YA board only to have it fail a year later makes one think hard about buying the G90's..

6) In hindsight, buying a Barco 909's like the ones that Curt has installed in his stack, with parts being available from Curt. OR building a Marquee with all the mods.

Lastly, Curt has two nice G90's.. If he was to warrant them for "X" amount of time, I'd almost consider that a SAFE bet vs worn green tubes AND possible power supply issues and YA board failures.

[ecrabb]

CJ and Hal pretty much covered the bases, but I'll just add a little to this that I think the other guys missed. I can tell you've done a little reading and research given that you're talking about adding HDMI cards, but since you're referring to "lamp life" and "bulb life", I'm also going to assume you've probably never touched a CRT projector or perhaps even seen a modern one in person. Given that, I'd like to just add a little background.

A single G90 weighs well over 200 pounds and is large enough to take up most, if not the entire back end of most full-size SUVs, so it's not a trivial one-man job to even move one of them, let alone move and mount two in a typical home theater.

Next, to use two of them together in what we call a "stack" configuration and get the most out of them requires exacting precision in layout and mounting, but also time-consuming, methodical setup and occasional maintenance.

A single G90 is relatively tolerable from a noise perspective (fan noise), but two would be pretty obnoxious in anything but a huge room. Most people would want to put them in what we call a "hush box". If you do use a hush box, you'll also need venting to the outside or at least another room in a basement since the two projectors will dissipate several thousand BTUs per hour in heat.

However, for the large investment in time and resources, on a good 10-foot wide screen, a G90 stack will reward you with a reference quality display.

CJ's suggestion that you could part them out if the tubes were shot is a good point, but I'd suggest even that isn't for a novice. Ideally, you'll have some good solid mechanical/engineering background. If you're not afraid to tear an engine down or tear a clothes washer apart down to the bare bones and put it back together, then you'll be fine. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

A G90 (or similar) is the penultimate CRT projector. It's one of three models that most CRT enthusiasts graduate to after years of experience with CRT, and even more reading and research. Most who buy one go into it understanding all the pitfalls they could encounter, such as the boards that can be bad (and expensive to repair), the screws you don't want to remove if you don't want glycol to drain into the projector, the C-elements you can damage if you expose the lenses to direct sunlight, and more.

I'm not trying to discourage you from buying what you want. I just want you to be aware that these beasts are huge, heavy, and are at the opposite end of the spectrum from anything remotely "plug and play".

Cheers,
SC

[hardisj]

argh! dupe!

[hardisj]

:shame:

[hardisj]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

ecrabb, you are right... I definitely don't have any hands on experience with these kind of beasts or any CRT type device at all other than being a teenager and throwing some in to a dumpster.
My A/V expertise leans much more to the "A" side. I have a website where I test and review raw speaker drivers (www.medleysmusings.com, /shameless plug), and I am an engineer by title, and I have a strong desire to learn (though, being an 'engineer' makes me no more a CRT-capable-genius than eating a tomato makes me a bottle of Heinz).

As far as the G90 being the cream of the crop and me seemingly jumping in too deep, that really is more coincidence than desire. Given the fact the G90 is, like you said, one of the more sought after units and I managed to find them for a very good price (which is currently up for debate) I figure... why not poll the experts on the matter to see if they think it's worth it to drive down the road. Additionally, when comparing my desires with the capabilities of the CRT, it seems the G90 and it's brethren are where I need to be looking, feature-wise. Again, until today, my plan was to order a digital PJ next week and just go on my merry way. But, the devil on my shoulder said "go ahead, man, look at CRTs" and here I am. :rolleyes:

Just to clarify, I wasn't wanting to run a dual PJ setup. I was only interested in the pair because that's how he wants to sell them. I was thinking IF I purchased them, I'd keep one as a spare or offer it up to someone else who may have a use for it (maybe even Curt?).

I certainly like Plug n' Play in particular situations, but when the opportunity arises to get something for a good price even if it involves a little dirty work... well, I'm always interested in that route. But, the 'challenge' here being unknown, I had to post this thread.

I get the feeling that if one of you guys were in my shoes you'd probably jump in because you know your capabilities and experience level. Your apprehensiveness to suggest I give it a go lies in whether or not I'm capable to make something out of nothing, should these ultimately prove to be 'nothing'. I certainly appreciate that viewpoint. That's the kind of input I was hoping to get from the community. At this point, I know nothing. But, if there's a diamond in the rough, so to speak, then I may pursue it.

I'll sleep on it tonight. I may even just shoot the guy straight and explain that the risk is only worth $x amount to me. If he doesn't see that as a fair deal, I'll continue on the path I was going.


Thanks again for all your help and input, guys. It truly is very much appreciated, and any further feedback on the matter to help further educate me on the pitfalls of potentially buying these would be welcomed.

I also appreciate you not treating a nooB like a nooB. It's always a bummer when you want to learn and get hammered by a bunch of prideful know-it-alls. :/


- Erin

[stridsvognen]

You dont need the remote to get into the menu, just use the one built in under the hood. So you can for sure check the hours without the wireless remote.

The G90 ventilators make a lot of noise, and move so much air that if you sit in the draft behind it for some time, you quite sure to get a cold.

You will need to do something about the ventilator noise to use it in a HT.

And if its not in the projector, you will need a Moome HDMI card, if i remember right its around 325$

Ill say that a 1000$ offer for both of them if they look ok and working, would be a fair price these days.

The G90 trows a bright and sharp image, but ill never call it a good HT projector.

[ecrabb]

[Spanky Ham]

I am not sure I would buy them even after owning two of them. But that is me and I don't have a dedicated HT.

For the price, you might be fine for the next couple of years which might be good to see how the 4k and laser/led situations plays out.

[jarseneau]

I'll throw my 2 cents in from the perspective of a 5 yr G90 owner and recent buyer of a 2nd...

G90s are well designed and can be extremely reliable. They are mechanically and electrically built like a tank. The only repair needed on my first G90 was the PA board and that failed strictly because I did the SilenX fan mod which allowed the PA board to overheat. I've since found a much better solution which actually runs quieter and cooler as well. I bought the 2nd G90 for $999 and consider that a steal even though its YA board was faulting but was fixed by Craig Rounds so even this problem can be repaired if it did come along so you won't be stuck with an unusable machine.

You should consider replacing the YA board's Dallas chip because the battery is probably at the end of its 10 year life. This is a $50 item to have your Dallas data copied to a new one and the chip is in a socket so it doesn't require special skills to replace.

These projectors throw an outstanding image. The green tube does age fastest but I've run mine past 6500 hours and the red and blue have gone past 12000 hrs and still look decent.

As with any CRT projector, you'll need to do alignment and convergence. The CRT setup guide on this forum will step you through almost every adjustment.

The brackets alone are probably worth $300/ea but be sure to get both the ceiling and projector halves.

[gjaky]

[stridsvognen]

[Jeremy112]

[garyfritz]

[jarseneau]

[hardisj]

I offered the guy a pretty low price on the pair. Based on the feedback here and from Curt, I didn't feel the risk was worth too much. I had the worst case scenario in my head that I get them home and six months later they're dead. The guy didn't seem to like my offer or care for my supporting rationale (ie; YA board potential failure, no idea about tube life, no remote, certainty of replacing at leas the green tubes at $1200/each, certainty of replacing the Dallas chip).

I actually felt good when he said no. Had he said yes, there was still some uncertainty on my part.

Based on the feedback here, I don't expect he'll get what he thinks he should. Not unless an interested party either a) knows exactly what they're getting by testing before they buy or b) have no idea of the pitfalls of these units and the risk involved.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. You've helped me make what I feel is the right decision for me.

[draganm]

[km987654]

What a silly discussion. This is a hobby or interest so it doesn't need to make sense financially. Trying to do so is just nonsense.

Buy them and get into it or just do something else.

[ecrabb]