CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

Shifu

Hi All!

Sorry if this sounds like something stupid, the projector caught me offguard. i found out that the video input is only 50hz. As a result the xbox is refusing some games. It's fine for the mediacenter but it would be nice if i could take full advantage of the system. I've read the manual and installation manual but i can't find any clear info on the refresh rate, except for the fact that everywhere they say it is 50/60hz.

The xbox 360 is connected through the advanced scart rgb cable to the video switch, the video switch has a scart to composite connection into the remote and that passes it through to the beamer.

I've tried switching to the xbox 360 composite cables but that made no difference.

If the RGBHV input is 60 hz i can work around it through a euroscart to rgbhv cable, it will send a video grade signal over the rgbhv input in that case i think?

i'm hoping that your expertise can shed some light, it's a big bummer because all my tests i did before turned out ok. not expecting that some games actually would refuse in this case.

Small edit:

Actually the projector does display the xbox360 when is switch to the pal-60 but i'll loose my red colour and exchange blue for pink and some other fancy variations on the palett Smile

Any hints, tips or ideas are welcome! i'm not planning on swapping the projectors yet though Very Happy

took me 1,5 year to get the whole setup complete Wink

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

You can run it at 60Hz, it should do both 720x480 and also 640x480, both interlaced, and will do up to 768x576i at 50Hz.

The wierd colours may be a result of running 720x480i instead of 640x480i.

The set is only able to go to 15.7kHz, so any progressive signal you send it will have to be 320x240p at 60Hz

Shifu · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:05 am Post subject:

I've tried to get it working through different setups but i can't get it straight.

The xbox 360 puts out 480i over the composite cables and over the rgb scart cables. both settings resulit in good picture at 50 hz but strange colours at 60 hz Sad

there isn't any switch inside the beamer with which i can force the 60 hz refresh? or am i looking in the wrong direction?

the tv from the same year i have here is stuck at 50 hz and gives an unusable screen (inverted, split in 2 and flcikering) so with that one i'm sure it won't run the 60 hz, but the beamer looks good except for the colors and a bit better visible scan lines. I think it is actually missing out the blue color Smile

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Its not getting the wrong refresh, its sending a signal the Sony doesnt like.

What i reckon youll find is its probably 720x480i, personally i dont reckon thatll do it but you never can tell.

What other retro consoles can you try at 60Hz?

Shifu · Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject:

Well... In theory the PS2 has some games that run on a pal-60 mode, but i don't have any in my library. The regular xbox, the snes and n64 also run at the 50 hz.

i've tried the laserdisc with a regular pal disc and an ntsc disc. both play in the right modes and colours.
I've been digging around a bit more and i think i have figured something out.

The regular pal system used to be the 50 hz variant, the pal-60 system runs on 60 hz, but it is a combination. it runs the resolution of the NTSC system with the color pallette of the pal system. What i think happens when i set the xbox360 to pal 60 is that the beamer switches over to the NTSC system.

That is the main reason why i can still see the screen, but since the pal-60 system uses the ntsc carrier with the pal colour, the sony can't make heads or tails of it so it shoots what it does understand. Very Happy

The only way to bypass this on the sony is through the rgbs input. I'll have to find that one out through trial and error by building an RGBS cable with a scart output. But that should be easy to do. Thumbs Up

Here is the quote about the pal-60 system:

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

There is no PAL or NTSC encoding in RGB though, so it wont be that.

You can make the SNES output 60Hz by changing a jumper configuration inside it.

Shifu · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:48 am Post subject:

well i discovered that the 60 hz frequency is not the issue, it can handle that perfectly Smile

but it's the pal-60 signal it doesn't understand. because of the ntsc frequency with the pal colour carrier. And because of the fact that the RGB signal doesn't use either pal or NTSC it will cure the problem i'm having Very Happy

or at leasy, i'm 95% sure of it. i'll have to try it first Wink

and report it here ofcourse! for others who have the same problem with the european xbox and the pal-60 signal Smile

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Yeah you should be using RGB anyway!! Forget composite.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:25 pm Post subject:

You might want to try an external quad decoder.

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Shouldnt need it if he goes SCART, will need an LM1881 to get the composite video into a usable sync signal though, im not sure if that Sony will take composite video as sync.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject:

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

Yeah i do remember that, im not sure why you had that issue there. I had one or two consoles do simular things using them with my PG, but not with the XG or Barco.

I can only assume the breakout probably had a 10uf capacitor and 75ohm resistor in line with the sync, which is something i bypass on NEO•GEO consoles to fix the issue there.

Unless the breakout was just passing the composite video off as composite sync, which is all that is required in a SCART enabled input, the sync pin on a SCART socket is also the composite video pin, and there is a mode pin that changes the blanking when different voltages are applied, when the right voltage is on that pin the set will blank off the composite video image using it for sync only and instead use the RGB pins for the image. Its quite a versatile thing that SCART interface...

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia

You could test a couple things here, plug the yellow lead ( composite video ) into the H+V sync socket on the projector and see if it syncs to the signal, there will be no image, but the projector should still indicate it has a signal it can use.

In the case of the 1041 i dont know what it shows on screen, if it is fully analog with no OSD at all other than test patterns ( simular to the VPH 1000-QM and having analog pots for brightness and contrast ), it may not be easy to tell without also connecting at least one of the RGB colour lines from the console.

If it is closer to the VPH 1001-QM ( which has a fair amount of digital control, including single point digital convergence ) and it's top of the line brother ( the 1044-QM, which is the same as a 1001-QM but adds RGB, the second last versions of this chassis, followed by the V20U i think it was called, same again but adds internal remote control receiver and also component video, as well as a couple other things ) then itll probably show some OSD to say what its syncing to.