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Reddman
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 70 Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: BG 1209s first look |
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After having the 1209s for three months,I finally decided to setup to put it into service. This is my first exposure to a Barco in particular a 9"LC machine. My setup is rather crude and there is still much to do to get this baby to perform at its best. It took a little trial and error to get the hang of the Barco setup but I finally managed to get a watchable picture.
WOW!! is the best way I can describe what I'm seeing. Now I see what the hype sounding having a highend 9"LC projector is all about. The brightness, crispiness of the picture, color detail and depth of image is breathtaking. It's like seeing my Blu ray collection for the first time. I can't wait to see what the picture is really like once I perform a proper and complete setup on this baby.
Like I said I just perform a basic setup to check things out. The focus isn't dialed in fully,convergence is off somewhat and the astigmation needs to be done so there's still much to do to get the best out of this great projector. I've been reading and studying the Barco info in the advanced procedure section. I'll be asking a lot of questions I'm sure.
Now for a few questions:
What's a good test disc to use to to help me perform the astig adjustments and to get focus exactly right?
Also is it best to adjust my rasters with the lenses off?
And I remember reading that it's normally safe to have the raster slightly off the tube faces as long as the picture image stays on the tube face. The picture image extending beyond the tube edges could cause the tube to implode. Is my understanding of this correct?
Thanks for any and all help guys
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cosaw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 164 Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And I remember reading that it's normally safe to have the raster slightly off the tube faces as long as the picture image stays on the tube face. The picture image extending beyond the tube edges could cause the tube to implode. Is my understanding of this correct? |
I can only talk about experience with my own 7" electrostatic Barco. It's the way I've always done it and never had any problems. If you're in a dark room and your brightness is set correctly then the overlapping raster should not be overly excited anyway. I run the active image pretty close to the tube edges at the widest point of the trapezoid. Get a decent full width test pattern to represent the active image. I do a full setup then I turn the contrast down and look into the green tube. Set the H-width of the image to what you want and then centre it with H-phase. Go back and forth between the two settings till you get it right (take the lens off if you need to). It's prudent at this point to make sure your screen and projector are exactly in the places they should be for the accuracy of green. After that centre the images on red and blue (preferably using the trim-pots inside the machine), again by looking into the lenses. You can now turn the contrast back up. Your red, green and blue images will now be offset on the screen. Re-aim the blue and red tubes/lenses so that the images line up again. You'll get the widest and most optimum usage of phosphor usage this way.
Someone wrote a really good guide on here somewhere explaining the above method. It's much more accurate than trying to centre rasters in my experience. Edit: Here it is: http://www.curtpalme.com/Focus_and_Mechanical_Aim1.shtm
As with everything CRT it's worth doing everything at least twice and going back and forth methodically. How close you run the active image to the tube edge and whether you overlap the raster - it seems debateable. I found on my 7" machine you've got to overlap the raster to get the active image anywhere near the tube edges. Never got a definitive answer on this.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 18114 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: BG 1209s first look |
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| Reddman wrote: | | And I remember reading that it's normally safe to have the raster slightly off the tube faces as long as the picture image stays on the tube face. |
Correct. The raster doesn't have any image energy so no heat is generated. What I did with my Barcos after all was set up was set blanking to just outside the image area just in case... this way if something gets shifted by accident it won't shoot an image off the tube face.
Kal
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6326 Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well thats in most cases Kal, but in some instances, moving the image or adjusting the size can move the blankingwhich is something ive seen on my CineMAX.
Also, if you create a new duplicate of an input, the blanking is turned off, i had a source that the projector locked onto as close enough to another input that used different porches, and the image was off the edge of the tube face by a reasonable amount.
_________________ Barco Cine 9, ,Sony VPL570ES 4K SXRD, 135" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, Denon X6700in preamp mode, 2x 7ch Tonewinner amps, 2x Tonewinner 15" subs, 2x 10" subs, 7.2.6...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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cosaw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 164 Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What I did with my Barcos after all was set up was set blanking to just outside the image area just in case... this way if something gets shifted by accident it won't shoot an image off the tube face. |
Hadn't thought of that - good idea!
How close did you run the image to the tube edge at the widest point? Mine looks like 3-4mm each side at the widest point of the trapezoid but that's looking through the lens and I don't run the contrast that high really either. Suppose I should do a touch test to see just how hot my tubes get at those points.
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Reddman
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 70 Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the information. I'll be doing a full setup later this week and I expect it will take several tries. The centering of the rasters shouldn't be too difficult, it's the astig setup I'm sure is going to be the most work. I'll be back with any questions if I run into a roadblock.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2257 Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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There is also another side to this I found out so you have to chose. By making the image a little smaller you have to move the CRT a little backward and the lenses are turned less inward. The convergence gets a little relaxed in the edges.
So maxing the image gives more light but takes more power. I just stay within the phosphor with the raster to be sure and use less optical and electronic correction. I think the convergence effect might give a little bit more phosphor use? Less trapezoid?
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cosaw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 164 Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So maxing the image gives more light but takes more power. I just stay within the phosphor with the raster to be sure and use less optical and electronic correction. I think the convergence effect might give a little bit more phosphor use? Less trapezoid? |
Yes I see. Another thing. I've always used a genlocked pattern for convergence so that you're converging past the active image and so the image itself is more likely to be bang on. I seem to remember plenty of people saying not to do this cos the internal patterns are useless but I don't understand why. Converging with a test pattern off dvd or pc (not the genlocked pattern) you're not converging wider or taller than the image. I guess this means less convergence stress but I'd bet it's harder to get the edges of the image bang on.
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Reddman
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 70 Location: South Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I see. Another thing. I've always used a genlocked pattern for convergence so that you're converging past the active image and so the image itself is more likely to be bang on. I seem to remember plenty of people saying not to do this cos the internal patterns are useless but I don't understand why. Converging with a test pattern off dvd or pc (not the genlocked pattern) you're not converging wider or taller than the image. I guess this means less convergence stress but I'd bet it's harder to get the edges of the image bang on.[/quote]
Thanks I'll try this out.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 18114 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| cosaw wrote: | | Quote: | | What I did with my Barcos after all was set up was set blanking to just outside the image area just in case... this way if something gets shifted by accident it won't shoot an image off the tube face. |
Hadn't thought of that - good idea!
How close did you run the image to the tube edge at the widest point? Mine looks like 3-4mm each side at the widest point of the trapezoid but that's looking through the lens and I don't run the contrast that high really either. Suppose I should do a touch test to see just how hot my tubes get at those points. |
I used to run both my Barco 800 and Zenith 1200 (Cine 8 Onyx clone) very close for extra light output so that I'd have to run the tubes less hard. Never measured how close actually so I don't know.
Some will argue that focus isn't as great as you get close which can be true, but focus is rarely great at the edges with CRT and I only ever watched movies (no PC/desktop). The Zenith 1200 had crappy HD215 lenses which only had one focus ring so it was even worse...
Kal
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cosaw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 164 Location: Nottingham, England
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Thanks I'll try this out. |
Which method? Both? I don't know which is better.
| Quote: | | The Zenith 1200 had crappy HD215 lenses which only had one focus ring so it was even worse... |
Was that common to all of those models or did you just have bad luck? Otherwise it seems like an oversight on a top of the range machine.
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