CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Lazenby]

I have a need to output blu ray films as 1080i. In going from 1080p 24 to 1080i 60 am i better off letting an oppo bdp do this or is there a vp that handles 3:2 pull down particularly well?

I have the aussie version of the KD-34XBR960, know here as the KV-HR36m31. Its only difference is the lack of HDMI/DVI input. Instead it has component and rgbhv. I am currently using a HDFury III but want to settle on the best setup prior to a professional avical calibration. My only real concern is blu-ray playback.

My options seem to be

1) oppo 103 outputting 1080i to an external moome card or internal sony with a PC-1270 to 1080i rgbhv

2) oppo 103 at 1080p 24 to hdmi splitter/decrypter to a DVDO VP30/50 to 1080i rgbhv

3) Direct from an Oppo-83 via component (with extron device to separate the sync if that is the better input than component - not sure if the xbr960 converts the rgbhv to component or vice versa). Problem with this setup is if future titles lack compatibility with the 83 then I'm stuck. If the 83 breaks and I need to replace it then that more troublesome than a 103.

Any thoughts?

[stridsvognen]

For sure you cant use the DVDO VP30, it wont do anything to a 1080P input, not even sure it will accept 24hz.

The most simple solution might be the best, just get a OPPO 83, and use the component output directly into your display.

I doubt that oppo wont play new titles, at least i never experienced any.

2nd your OPPO 83 might need a new drive, other than that it might outlive your display.

splitters/ HDCP strippers, video processors and so on can be a terrible mess to get up running smooth, without any handshake problems or other issues.

[Lazenby]

Thank you for the advice. I will try to acquire an oppo 83 although I have read on this forum that only its hdmi output and not its analogue output, take advantage of the processing it is renowned for. I wonder what other blu ray player might be best for 1080i 60Hz output over component or rgbhv?

[stridsvognen]

There is not many options going for a Blu Ray that will output 1080i blu ray movies.

The analog sunset did only alow 1080i output at first, next they limited it to SD resolutions, and now you can get a player with analog output.

The OPPO 93 wil max output SD resolutions with blu ray movies, so you have to go for the OPPO 83 generation, also the SONY 5000ES will do the 1080i output.

Im not sure what processing you are looking for, but let me know and i can test it for you, i have the OPPO 83 and the SONY 5000ES.

Stay away from the old Denon players, they are extremely slow, and many have had problems with them.

Another option is the Hdfury III im using one myself to feed my old plasma panel with component input.

It will give your screen 2 HDMI inputs.

The OPPO 83 is one of my favorit blu ray players, even today, if you have to look at image quality, user interface and speed.

[Lazenby]

Many thanks for your offer. At present I am only concerned with blu-ray playback although eventually DVD playback will be sought out.

I have been using a second hand hdfury iii I bought cheap for a week now and it works well. But before I pay $400 for a professional calibration I want to make sure I minimise any weak links in the chain. From the (in)famous "$25 dollar stripper" thread:

"The HDF2 was a total mess in terms or analog signal quality. The HDF3 was better with standard resolutions, but still rather off the mark. Moome's new EXT is quite good with clarity and BW, but has some usability issues. I think the scalers with RGBHV outputs are definitely better than any external options for DA conversion so I am not surprised you like it best." craigr

Given the current external moome card is only $220 I could buy that, sell the hdufry iii, and use the moome with any oppo player I can get for a reasonable price. In the long run I could look to add a DVD A1xv for SD material, and maybe a lumagen radiance for its CMS (mainly for secondaries, which cannot be adjusted on the KV-HR36m31). Ultimately one might question the point of investing the time and effort on an old 36" CRT telly but this seems like the wrong forum to do it in

More seriously, I have read of an ISF calibrator getting the following out of the US equivalent xbr960:
"When I had finished, the gamma curve was a perfect 2.2, not 2.19 or 2.21 but 2.2! Grayscale tracked within 200k of D65 with all Delta C* points below 1."

My KV-HR36 is an earlier one made in Japan and has about 6 years and 5000 hours of use and its geometry seems fine.

A quick check of ebay australia shows a S5000ES will cost a few dollars MORE than a new oppo 103 (AU$650)! I can get a sony s550 for next to nothing.

[stridsvognen]

I not finished with my OPPO 103D yet, but it might end up being the best alround machine for scaling DVD for sure its the best Netflix streaming i seen, so if you end up in the Video processor you should go with a new player.

The 25$ stripper will do it and i still have to experience any problems, i have 2.

About video processors its tricky, the Radiance have super scaling, lousy deinterlacing, not sure how interlacing blu ray will work.

DVDO have decent deinterlacing and lots of ringing on the scaling.

Crystalio do a good deinterlacing, but its full of bugs, also stay away from the DVDO VP50Pro, its full of bugs, and i think worse image than the DVDO non pro model.

But ill still recomend the OPPO 83 to keep it simple and a very nice performer, and im quite sure it will scale DVD to 1080i on component out, at least ill give it a shot so i can tell you for sure.

[Lazenby]

Yes that's all i need with out too much cost.

1. blu ray 1080/24p to 1080/60i
2. dvd ntsc/pal to 1080i (if i see an A1XV locally i will buy)
3. analogue out OR conversion via moome card v1.4

no additional processing necessary

[Lazenby]

I'm almost ready to wrap up this project and purchase the needed equipment.

A couple of reasons against using the 83's analogue output:
- According to kal "The component output video quality is not as good as HDMI since the advanced features provide by the Anchor Bay VRS ABT2010 processor are only available on the HDMI output. (The component signal completely bypasses the video processor). For the best video quality, HDMI must be used." Ultimately I have no idea whether the 83s analogue output meets the flawless standard of its hdmi output, and what the quality of its d/a conversion is.
- Upscaled DVD (720p and over) will not pass through component.

What I have found is that the crt has sony's 'cinema drive mode' (3:2 pull down). Apparently with film-based material with bad 3:2 cadence errors (mixed 3:2 sequences) it seems to detect 3:2 and has a very small 'recovery' time when 3:2 cadence is interrupted. It's telecine function has been described as 'quite good'. So I have no reservations pursuing the best I can get out of the setup within reason knowing it will handle 1080/60i well.

So its down to the 83 (used) or 103 via hdmi and a moome card. It all hinges upon whether one of the oppo's provides better quality 1080/60i than the other. Given this is an usual thing to do with the advent of progressive displays my searching has come up short on this question. Any thoughts on this or the picture quality of the 103 vs 83 more generally stridsvognen?

I have also found the extent to which the crt's LUMA and COLOUR can be adjusted via its service menu (pics below). Given this I wonder how much benefit a simple CMS would provide. To avoid the cost and setup headaches of a lumagen I am thinking of the 1D videoeq mx (US$500). It's main benefits would be 21-point grayscale and more accurate controls in the 0.1 range.

[stridsvognen]

Ok i just connected my OPPO 83 using the component output.

It will upscale to 1080i and a fast look it looks fine, and i dont think you will get better upscaling in a Denon DVD A1XV, i have 2 of those, and what they do good is deinterlacing. You dont need that.

Also the picture adjustments are working on the component out.

If you go for the OPPO 103 / moome setup, be aware that not all moome cards/ boxes perform well, so its a gamble.

So you might be better with something like the Hdfury 3.

If possible, try calibrate your setup with the analog adjustments you have in your CRT, any digital CMS will mess with your signal, and possible make a overall worse picture. Depending how good or bad your CRT performs.

I i was you i would start finding a cheep OPPO 83, and go from there, if you like to try a HDMI to component converter in the future, the 83 has a perfect HDMI output, cant say that about many Blu Ray players.

[Lazenby]

Many thanks stridsvognen. I acquired an 83 yesterday and its component out at 1080i is far superior to the hdmi out of the mid-tier philips bluray player/hdufry 3 combo I was using previously. Picture is far more detailed and vibrant. I can see texture of clothing. I am very pleased. DVD playback looked great over component too although I do not know whether it the oppo was upscaling or defaulting to 576i and the TVs own upscaling was doing the work. Either way it looked great and I do not own enough dvds to worry about it.

My only problem now is I have developed an enthusiasm for laser disc. Picking up an LA2300 tomorrow as a starting point.

[stridsvognen]

[Lazenby]

In my case display is only 36" and accepts 1080i and below so deinterlacing not needed. I can get a hdq for around the price as a used oppo 83 but concerns with laser disc are:

1. scaling to 1080i. The tv will always take 1080i (or 720p and lower) and scale it to its native res of 1440i. So im thinking i may as well just feed the native laser disc 480/525 and rely solely on the tvs upscaling. I am sure getting the tv to down scale from 1080i is better than upscaling to 1440i from 480i. I just wonder how much better.

2. comb filtering. I cant justify a xl0 but am looking at a hld1000. I should really see how good my tvs comb filter is first before looking at an external solution.

given the above the hdq might not add much value.

[stridsvognen]

[Lazenby]

I collected what appears to be an unused la2300 with yamaha apd1 ac3 decoder. Popped the hood and found not a spec of dust. Watching the mint copy of starship troopers that came with it left me wanting to know more...

I see what you mean by the issue of the number of lines especially when zoomed to fill the screen, which to my surprise was preferable over wide zoom etc. The picture looked hazy and a little washed out.

What really surprised was the absence of combing/jagged edges. This was true whether i had the 3-D noise reduction enabled or not. Maybe my crt's comb filter is not so bad?

Is the hdq preferred over a faroudja 1000/3000? Does the hdq also have good noise reduction?

The denon la3500 is of great interest especially if it plays PAL too, as there are few titles I can get in PAL. Every extra bit of resolution counts by the looks of things.

[stridsvognen]

The LA3500 also play PAL discs if i remember right, im surprised if the LA2300 dont. Think i got one in the stack of LD players somewhere.

Dont count on the PAL discs looking better, i have experienced some of them looking worse, looking like they just upscaled the NTSC material.

If possible, try go with as little noise reduction as possible, as it washes out the image, making it look even softer, on the other hand, some players have so much noise that its needet.

If you have the Video Essentials LD, and try play with some of the patterns comparing different players comb filters and stuf, you will notice how much difference there is, and you for sure will se on screen playing movies.

Remember that Video Essentials is 4:3 format, and uses the discs full resolution, it can look very nice, that might also be the only disc where that happens.

Most important of all is to set the right brightness, and with NTSC laserdisc you might need to adjust it to each movie.

You will most likely prefer to clip away a bit of low level information, to remove some of all the low level noise.