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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: My Barco story - SMPS adjustments |
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I have to confess:
I have owned a CRT projector since 2006. First a new Barco 808 with 108 hours on the tubes and chassis. Then came a Barco 1209s/E, which is still here. I think I have not watched more than 100 hours on them. 
I can't really remember when I bought an almost complete Barco CM100 ceiling mount, but a year afterwards I finally mounted the 1209s/E to the ceiling.
And it has not changed the last few years.
But now I have been triggered again, so I took the SMPS out of my 1209s, to finally fix the faults it had. Well, it worked, but I have to fix the service bulletins.
First question: Are there more service bulletins than listed on this site?
Second question: Seos' FSB-15 mentions a 2SC3998 which is also not available any more. On mouser.com I found this transistor which should work: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FJ/FJL6920.pdf
With my limited knowledge about electronics it looks like it should work, but the datasheets are not the same. Of course the maximum current of the FJL6920 is lower than the 2SC3998. This does not matter, as it is a replacement for the BUP101, which has much lower ratings than the FJL6920. I am not sure about the saturation voltages.
Is the FJL6920 a drop-in replacement for the 2SC3998 or do I need to swap some parts?
Third question: How does Barco code the capacitors in the service manual? With 50M3 they seem to mean 50 Volts, and 100M means 100uF. But they also use 47P and 4K7. What's the catch?
Fourth question: If something breaks when powered on, what do I do? I remember there's one situation where you do _not_ turn the set off; if the set is stuck at displaying a white-out. Turning it off results in a spot-burn. There's some internal cable to disconnect and only then turn it off.. I can't watch it in peace without knowing those details. It my Barco fails like that I don't think I have time to spend a few hours on looking it up on a forum, do I?
I really should make some pictures, eh? Well... maybe soon.
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The kissing and the colour come crashing down
Last edited by SisterOfMercy on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
If you get a white-out you want to unplug filament power to the tubes; you can shut down safely when the filaments are cold.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:00 am Post subject: |
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47p is 47 pico farad.
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | 47p is 47 pico farad. |
Yes, but that's easy! 
The 909 Service manual has almost the same values, but with correct units. So 100M is 100uF, or 100*10^-6 F.
5K6 is 5,6nF, or 5,6*10-9 F.
At first I thought it would be 5,6uF and did not see the math. 5K6 multiplied by 1000 gives 5M6. This is indeed the same as 5,6*10-6 F.
It's kinda weird how they use K instead of n.. Oh well, at least I can now read it.
With resistors they use the E. 0E33 is a resistor of 0,33 Ohm. This is not very uncommon, I believe. A 2K2 resistor is 2,2kOhm, 2200 Ohm or 2,2*10^3 Ohm. Ok, this is probably way too obvious. 
Something else: http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/Barco_FSB04_SMPU_Capacitor_Upgrade.pdf
I once checked if I had 105 degree C type capacitors in the locations of C104 and C114. Well, they were already upgraded in the factory. Only now I have an ESR tester. Well, these newer 105C capacitors are also going bad! (of course)
The service bulletin did not mention C139 and C170 on the G2/diagnostic/SMPS2 board! There is also a BU2525A in that location, which is in a similar circuit.
Also if you have a BUP101 in place of Q100 or a similar transistor where C105 is changed to an 100uF electrolytic type, that one may be bad as well.
On my board the C104 capacitor is one of 220uF, just like the C102 in a similar function.
 Please REPLACE these capacitors before they break down and you have to replace Q101 and perhaps a TDA4601 
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The kissing and the colour come crashing down
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Q100 in my Barco is a Barco 132951, according to this post, this is an APT 1001RBVR:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/286864/switching-power-supply-transistor-questions
Would that be correct?
On the G2/diagnostic/SMPS2 board, Q141 is also this same Barco part. In the service manual a BU2525 is used. In the 909 a BU2530 transistor is used. Would this really be a mosfet, and would this need to be replaced like the Q100 in FSB15?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: | Q100 in my Barco is a Barco 132951, according to this post, this is an APT 1001RBVR:
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Hmmm, where have I seen that part number before? 
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fuchs
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: the NL
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| Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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heya
good luck when powering up that Barco.
I couldn't help you make it better but I'll drive over with a movie and a few beers to see that monster alive 
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onkel fuchs' cheapskate cinema
NEC plain 9PG
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not replacing the 132951 mosfet until I found out more about it all. Maybe it doesn't need to be replaced, as the horizontal instability problem only occurs with an IXTH12N100. I thought I had problems with screen width, but maybe other parts were just drifting a bit.
Current status: Replaced a few caps here and there, need to test the set before I replace more of them. At least these double-sided boards are really easy to solder.
| macgyver655 wrote: | | Hmmm, where have I seen that part number before? |
Uhh.. you tell me
| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | If you get a white-out you want to unplug filament power to the tubes; you can shut down safely when the filaments are cold. |
Ah, so the gun will not have any electrons to shoot? How long does one have to wait after before shutting down the set? A few minutes until the filaments are not glowing any more?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: | | IXTH12N100. |
This is an old, old part number and has been replaced by probably 3 revisions since.
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | SisterOfMercy wrote: | | IXTH12N100. |
This is an old, old part number and has been replaced by probably 3 revisions since. |
Yes, I found your old post:
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=89766#89766
So then I would have an IXTH12N100 in my SMPS, which _is_ susceptible to horizontal instability. 
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I just adjusted the 17.5 V on the SMPS, it was 17.8 V and now it is at 17.6 V
(P100 on the SMPS, using 15.7kHz scanrate with contrast & brightness set at midpoint)
If I remember correctly this should be set a little higher than the original value, correct? 
edit: +14 Volts (adjusted with P1 on sub-board) is 14.14 V, seems good enough.
The SM states: "Pin 6 is preadjusted, ex factory, at approx. 14 volts with P1"
It is used in the comparator IC3, which can shut down the SMPS.
edit2: 6,81 V on the filaments 
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:12 am Post subject: |
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OK, nobody's really paying attention to this topic. I can't blame them.
But please, please, please... replace your SMPS capacitors with Panasonic FC or FM types! The primary side that is, mentioned in FSB-04!
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: |
So then I would have an IXTH12N100 in my SMPS, which _is_ susceptible to horizontal instability. |
I'm not so sure this mosfet would cause that problem but if you don't like that one then replace it with the FH version. It's the revision above the one you have.
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | I'm not so sure this mosfet would cause that problem but if you don't like that one then replace it with the FH version. It's the revision above the one you have. |
Uh, have you read FSB-015? If you did and have a better explanation, please let me know! I'm now thinking about replacing these parts in the SMPS and 2nd SMPS with a BU2530, just like in the 909 schematics. I am not sure it will help, but it might give me more peace of mind watching it.
According to that service bulletin I am affected (well, she is), but can't confirm it due to the parts numbers....  
I don't know, don't want to replace parts without cause, but without due cause to do not replace them without due cause.... whut? where am I? who are you?.... uhhh help?
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| SisterOfMercy wrote: |
Uh, have you read FSB-015? If you did and have a better explanation, please let me know! |
Cough it up and lets see what it says.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Never mind. I got it.
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SisterOfMercy
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Zwart Nazareth, The Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Cough it up and lets see what it says. |
Ugh rarghalllll uch uhc:
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/Barco_FSB15_SMPS_Hor_Ampl_Stability.pdf
Please let me know if you, or anybody else have an opinion on this issue. I'm happy with any opinion*.
*Yes I will f*ck myself tongiht.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Well that explains it. Although it seems that mosfet is causing this particular problem it's not the mosfet itself causing the problem. It's barco's f*ck***, trying to replace an obselete part with a mosfet, in a circuit that was never designed for one. And what's the fix? Hahaha, remove the mosfet and put a deflection transistor back in. To funny.
So just do the bulletin and put in a 2sc3998 and make the other changes.
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