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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:07 pm Post subject: Niles SI-1200 service manual |
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Anyone have a service manual for this amp? It's a 12 channel amp and all the odd number (1,3,5,7,9 and 11) are out.
All the fuses are fine which led me to pull the power supply to check it out.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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What the hell do you need the service manual for. Just fix the damn thing.... 
Assuming you have all the bridge and dip switches in their proper location.
Did you try swapping input lines to verify it's not a source/cable problem. If that's ok I would suspect an input board problem. Does it have 2 separate PS's for the power amp section?
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | What the hell do you need the service manual for. Just fix the damn thing....
Assuming you have all the bridge and dip switches in their proper location.
Did you try swapping input lines to verify it's not a source/cable problem. If that's ok I would suspect an input board problem. Does it have 2 separate PS's for the power amp section? |
Bridge and dip$hits OK. One PS. If I knew what to look for at the various TP's around the board would be a good start.
the fuse at F2 is good. Wouldn't you suspect there to be a F1? If there is, I can't find it.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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You would think there would be an F1 but who knows. Odd ball stuff is just to common.
If it's just 1 PS and no dual regulators for supply voltage to the power amp section then I would suspect a preamp section problem. If I had a print I could suggest where to poke around but without one the poking is left up to you. A quick look and I could not find one. Some stuff is oddball enough that I can't easily get them....
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | You would think there would be an F1 but who knows. Odd ball stuff is just to common.
If it's just 1 PS and no dual regulators for supply voltage to the power amp section then I would suspect a preamp section problem. If I had a print I could suggest where to poke around but without one the poking is left up to you. A quick look and I could not find one. Some stuff is oddball enough that I can't easily get them.... |
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | You would think there would be an F1 but who knows. Odd ball stuff is just to common.
If it's just 1 PS and no dual regulators for supply voltage to the power amp section then I would suspect a preamp section problem. If I had a print I could suggest where to poke around but without one the poking is left up to you. A quick look and I could not find one. Some stuff is oddball enough that I can't easily get them.... |
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Ha, you find that shocking????? 
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | You would think there would be an F1 but who knows. Odd ball stuff is just to common.
If it's just 1 PS and no dual regulators for supply voltage to the power amp section then I would suspect a preamp section problem. If I had a print I could suggest where to poke around but without one the poking is left up to you. A quick look and I could not find one. Some stuff is oddball enough that I can't easily get them.... |
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Ha, you find that shocking????? |
I have yet to see you stumped...you even had a wiring diagram for a 1979 tractor!
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | macgyver655 wrote: | You would think there would be an F1 but who knows. Odd ball stuff is just to common.
If it's just 1 PS and no dual regulators for supply voltage to the power amp section then I would suspect a preamp section problem. If I had a print I could suggest where to poke around but without one the poking is left up to you. A quick look and I could not find one. Some stuff is oddball enough that I can't easily get them.... |
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Ha, you find that shocking????? |
I have yet to see you stumped...you even had a wiring diagram for a 1979 tractor! |
Hahaha, well I did say "can't easily". We'll see what tomorrow brings...... LOL.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:18 am Post subject: |
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My guess is that Niles doesn't release schematics. Most of the multiroom audio companies don't.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:00 am Post subject: |
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I swapped channel 1 and 2 molex connectors at the amp board from the input board and got sound out of amp channel 1 so the amp is fine. The input board looks like it gets power on both ends. I will have to pull that board out and inspect it after I see what kind of power is on those two plugs at each end. The only connections to the input board are a 3 wire power connector at each end and 12 two wire outputs to the amps.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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So this morning before I left to do some REAL work, I fired off a email to Niles tech support. They won't provide a service manual AND even if you know what part you need, they won't sell it to you. So if you break a knob you have to send the whole thing to them for a $275.00 flat rate repair. Ooooh yaaa, that works for me 
I'll keep poking around.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:12 am Post subject: |
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The input board has 9 LF353's on it. What voltage would you expect to see when probing Vcc and Vee (4 and 8)?
I'm having a hard time conemplating that all 9 failed exactly the same at the same time. The spec sheet I located indicated 15-18 volts but that doesn't sound right and I'm not getting anything near that from the plug that supplies it.
The three wire plug that supplies it has a black wire that is just a ground. The plug on the other end of the board is connected to the "auto sensing" circuit which is working.
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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Location: nederland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Supply voltage, VCC + 3.5 18 V
Supply voltage, VCC – –3.5 –18 V
these are max and minimum ratings so 12 volts should work too.
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spitz
Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: slide switches |
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I had an SI-1230 with a couple channels out, similar to what you describe. Turned out the slide switches on the input board had corroded over time. It only affected the odd channels from what I remember. Ended up soldering in some jumpers to bypass them.
-Matt
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | Supply voltage, VCC + 3.5 18 V
Supply voltage, VCC – –3.5 –18 V
these are max and minimum ratings so 12 volts should work too. |
And these are measured pin 8 and pin 4 relative to ground?
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | And these are measured pin 8 and pin 4 relative to ground? |
Yes. Just take a look at the application examples at the end of the datasheet (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lf353-n.pdf). There You can see it: Symmetrical supply, just like most of the OP-AMP devices...
Regards,
barclay66
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Well spitz wins the boobie prize. All six bridging switches were bad. What are the odds of that.
I wouldn't have found it if it were not for the test rig Mac made me make a couple of years ago.
I've got some contact cleaner out in my truck. I'm going to spray them and work-em back and forth a bit and see if that helps.
Still scratching my head. One or two, but all six???
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: |
I wouldn't have found it if it were not for the test rig Mac made me make a couple of years ago.
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Hahaha, I thought about that as soon as you started this thread. I was going to suggest it but you never indicated back then if you made it or not. I still use that method to this day.......
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | stefuel wrote: |
I wouldn't have found it if it were not for the test rig Mac made me make a couple of years ago.
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Hahaha, I thought about that as soon as you started this thread. I was going to suggest it but you never indicated back then if you made it or not. I still use that method to this day....... |
Yep it works real slick for following audio signals. I used a little Radio Shack 2 channel amp with a headphone jack and a probe connected to the CD/TAPE input.
Still scratchin my head. One or two switches OK but all six? Un friggin real.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Hey Mac, are ya happy know? You made me fix it without the manual 
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