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mutantaction
Joined: 06 Sep 2012
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: 720p or 1080i ? |
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Hey all!
On a Marquee 8500, what do you think is the better resolution? If 1080p is used on
1080i, then I would still have the 1920 pixels on each line, yes? If used on 720p it would
downscaled to 1280.
I've tried both 1080i and 720p resolution with 720p material, and I can't really tell the difference 
But maybe 1080p material will be better on 1080i than 720p.
What do you think?
Thanks
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Phoenixed
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: The mitten
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Those resolutions will definitely be sharper than 1080p just based on the bandwidth. What resolution do YOU like is the real question? Since none of us will prolly watch tv at your house. 
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Planar PD-8150/Runco LS-5
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Phoenixed
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: The mitten
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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I always fall back to an old post one of our modderators named kal said "1080i and 1080p both have the same resolution 1920x1080..." Now i did paraphrase that a little but the message is still there. The difference is in how the image is drawn on the tube face. Interlaced draws two 540p images every other lines. While 1080p draws one image. Some people like me cant stand the flicker of the 1080i image being drawn.
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Planar PD-8150/Runco LS-5
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| Phoenixed wrote: | | I always fall back to an old post one of our modderators named kal said "1080i and 1080p both have the same resolution 1920x1080..." Now i did paraphrase that a little but the message is still there. The difference is in how the image is drawn on the tube face. Interlaced draws two 540p images every other lines. While 1080p draws one image. Some people like me cant stand the flicker of the 1080i image being drawn. |
Funny, I'm hyper sensitive to flicker. I can't stand compact fluorescent light bulbs, DLP projectors or those little flip books we had as kids , but, I'm watching 1080i right now and have been for years and the flicker does not bother me.
Guess that makes me weird?
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I would say always use the source's native resolution (720p movie in720p etc.). 1080p or i is 1,5x of the resolution of 720p which is hard to interpolate on computer side. 1080i in theory have the same image quality as 1080p, but in practice is not really true -at least on a CRT. When gently rising edges on the picture the scanlines may become visible with 1080i while this cannot happen with 1080p. Another thing which worth attention is the refresh rate, the standard 1080i meant to be 60Hz refresh (which is suitable for HD broadcasting), while HD movie content has 23,97fps (say: 24) native play rate, the factor between this two is not an integer so moving artifacts won't have smooth speed. Summing all the above: if you want 1080 line resolution with a moderate bandwidth you should try 1080i@96Hz (mostly available if you have HTPC) this resolution has the bandwidth needs of the 1080p48Hz while it has invisible flicker however scan lines still may become visible, but the motions will look natural.
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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2802
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | Phoenixed wrote: | | I always fall back to an old post one of our modderators named kal said "1080i and 1080p both have the same resolution 1920x1080..." Now i did paraphrase that a little but the message is still there. The difference is in how the image is drawn on the tube face. Interlaced draws two 540p images every other lines. While 1080p draws one image. Some people like me cant stand the flicker of the 1080i image being drawn. |
Funny, I'm hyper sensitive to flicker. I can't stand compact fluorescent light bulbs, DLP projectors or those little flip books we had as kids , but, I'm watching 1080i right now and have been for years and the flicker does not bother me.
Guess that makes me weird? |
Either you are too far from the screen or your light output is too little 
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| gjaky wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | Phoenixed wrote: | | I always fall back to an old post one of our modderators named kal said "1080i and 1080p both have the same resolution 1920x1080..." Now i did paraphrase that a little but the message is still there. The difference is in how the image is drawn on the tube face. Interlaced draws two 540p images every other lines. While 1080p draws one image. Some people like me cant stand the flicker of the 1080i image being drawn. |
Funny, I'm hyper sensitive to flicker. I can't stand compact fluorescent light bulbs, DLP projectors or those little flip books we had as kids , but, I'm watching 1080i right now and have been for years and the flicker does not bother me.
Guess that makes me weird? |
Either you are too far from the screen or your light output is too little |
I don't like having to wear sunglasses to watch TV. 
I can see the flicker on an all white screen but it just doesn't bother me.
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | gjaky wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | | Phoenixed wrote: | | I always fall back to an old post one of our modderators named kal said "1080i and 1080p both have the same resolution 1920x1080..." Now i did paraphrase that a little but the message is still there. The difference is in how the image is drawn on the tube face. Interlaced draws two 540p images every other lines. While 1080p draws one image. Some people like me cant stand the flicker of the 1080i image being drawn. |
Funny, I'm hyper sensitive to flicker. I can't stand compact fluorescent light bulbs, DLP projectors or those little flip books we had as kids , but, I'm watching 1080i right now and have been for years and the flicker does not bother me.
Guess that makes me weird? |
Either you are too far from the screen or your light output is too little |
I don't like having to wear sunglasses to watch TV.
I can see the flicker on an all white screen but it just doesn't bother me. |
Never notice flicker with 1080i I have always wondered what people were talking about. I do find 720p sharp.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I cant even see enough flicker to bother me at 1920x1080i @ 50Hz, but itll also depend on the decay rate of the phosphor as to how much flicker you see at a given frequency.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2874
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | I cant even see enough flicker to bother me at 1920x1080i @ 50Hz, but itll also depend on the decay rate of the phosphor as to how much flicker you see at a given frequency. |
Yes good point. That might explain why some see it and others don't.
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The_JoE
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Jackson, MI
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer 720p because most video games are made for 720p, I don't have 1080i cable tv (or any cable tv...), most netflix HD streaming is 720p, and I think that 720p is often softer and doesn't have the aforementioned flicker.
That all being said, I've never noticed flicker with the projector when playing around with 1080i and it really bothers me on digital displays. I chose 720p because it was easier to remain uniform across devices and media than 1080i.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| The_JoE wrote: | | ... because most video games are made for 720p.... |
Certainly not in my experience... Ive got well over 500 games here that are in 240p... Then a handful ( about 30 ) in 480i and 576i...
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Phoenixed
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: The mitten
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Newer games Case, not the retro classics you got.
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The_JoE
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Jackson, MI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Certainly not in my experience... Ive got well over 500 games here that are in 240p... Then a handful ( about 30 ) in 480i and 576i... |
Fair point...
I was actually thinking of my xbox360 and ps3 games though. Most of my retro games are emulated on my arcade cabinet at the moment and I haven't touched the wii since my last play through of Eternal Darkness.
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Phoenixed
Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 514
Location: The mitten
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to see a fellow Michigander on here.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: 720p or 1080i ? |
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| mutantaction wrote: | I've tried both 1080i and 720p resolution with 720p material, and I can't really tell the difference
Thanks |
that should tell you something. An 8500 at it's full potential, even with stock HD-8 lenses, will show very large and distinct scan lines at both 720P and 1080i. At 1080i the gaps between the scan lines are very large, I found them unwatchable. I switched to 720P, which still shows scan line gaps but they're much smaller and you have to be 4 or 5 feet away to see them.
Check your private messages
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Phoenixed wrote: | | Newer games Case, not the retro classics you got. |
Yeah i knew that much, but thats not most games, its only the past couple years of them.
| The_JoE wrote: | Fair point...
I was actually thinking of my xbox360 and ps3 games though. Most of my retro games are emulated on my arcade cabinet at the moment and I haven't touched the wii since my last play through of Eternal Darkness. |
I dont have an XboX or PS3, cause those games are far better on the PC as a rule. I do have almost every console right up to the Sega DreamCast, and they are definately better played on genuine original hardware which is why i go that way. Wont suit everyone though.
| draganm wrote: | that should tell you something. An 8500 at it's full potential, even with stock HD-8 lenses, will show very large and distinct scan lines at both 720P and 1080i. At 1080i the gaps between the scan lines are very large, I found them unwatchable. I switched to 720P, which still shows scan line gaps but they're much smaller and you have to be 4 or 5 feet away to see them.
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You must have bionic eyes... What gap would you measure in between the lines at 1920x1080i?
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The_JoE
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 14
Location: Jackson, MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | I dont have an XboX or PS3, cause those games are far better on the PC as a rule. I do have almost every console right up to the Sega DreamCast, and they are definately better played on genuine original hardware which is why i go that way. Wont suit everyone though. |
One of my friends has a sony 1209 that I helped him mount in the basement. He's also 'against' emulation if you will and can definitely back that up; he has every system except xbox (original) and ps3. He has multiples of most as well for testing, repair, or modding. I agree that most emulation is lacking in some way, however, my current cabinet is mostly used for MAME which is often as good as you can get for arcade gaming. There are some lines I won't cross though; N64 and on don't get emulated and systems like the nintendo cabinet I made must at least provide ports to plug in original controllers.
All of my ps3 games are exclusive because I did have the realization that PC gaming is superior when available. At this point though, the only game I play is TF2!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | You must have bionic eyes... What gap would you measure in between the lines at 1920x1080i? |
good question. I will go get down to the theater this weekend and take some pics of a full white field with both 720P and 1080i. At 720p, the gaps are somewhere in the 2mm range i think , but it's been a long time since I played around with that stuff. I"ll hold up a scale for reference.
I mostly go down stairs ot watch movies now, which is not a bad thing either.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6326
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The_JoE wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | I dont have an XboX or PS3, cause those games are far better on the PC as a rule. I do have almost every console right up to the Sega DreamCast, and they are definately better played on genuine original hardware which is why i go that way. Wont suit everyone though. |
One of my friends has a sony 1209 that I helped him mount in the basement. He's also 'against' emulation if you will and can definitely back that up; he has every system except xbox (original) and ps3. He has multiples of most as well for testing, repair, or modding. I agree that most emulation is lacking in some way, however, my current cabinet is mostly used for MAME which is often as good as you can get for arcade gaming. There are some lines I won't cross though; N64 and on don't get emulated and systems like the nintendo cabinet I made must at least provide ports to plug in original controllers.
All of my ps3 games are exclusive because I did have the realization that PC gaming is superior when available. At this point though, the only game I play is TF2!
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Yeah mate i used to use MAME to play NEO-GEO games, even modded genuine joysticks for it which at the time we thought was exactly as it was on a real machine, til i decided to buy another home console and compared Samurai Shodown and Fatal Fury Special, it was clear you couldnt beat the genuine. Sega Saturn and 3DO emulation was terrible, so i bought a NOS FZ-10 to replace my dead one and got another Saturn. N64 i wasnt bothered with, i just pulled my original out of the box Bought a few Master Systems, Mega Drives, a NES, 3 SNESs, a Dreamcast and 8 Playstations cause they are only $5 each. I play them all when i have time, the only emulator i do play really now is Nebula Model 2 for Daytona USA and a couple others, ive got no space for a few Daytona twins here!!
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