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mc86 · Last edited by mc86 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:44 am; edited 1 time in total

UPDATED TITLE
More from the you-might-have-cared-in-2002 files! Very Happy

I have removed the tinted glycol from:

a) the R,G, and B Sony 07MTS tubes taken from an ECP4500+. I am 98% sure these are factory original.
b) the green 07MS tubes from both an ampro and a barco machine (from CJ and Drags, refilled???).

I have some interesting (preliminary) results!

1) The glycol from the ECP 07MTS blue tube had a very light greenish-blue tint. I've read on several threads where knowledgeable folks asserted blue-tube glycols were not tinted and were clear. So...I did some experimenting. I took the 07MTS red and green tinted glycols (from the ECP) and ran them through an activated carbon bed and a 0.1um filter. Viola - all of the tint was removed and the base fluid had the exact same coloring as the blue tube's un-processed/raw glycol...and these are NOT clear. As the activated carbon and a 0.1um filter didn't readily remove the discoloration, I'm wondering if a salt may have been added to the fluid by SONY. I saw a long time ago an old patent that suggested this as opposed to dyes for color fastness and filtering with fewer losses. The green tube DID show signs of a crystallization of sorts - a whitish-green paste of sorts on the glass.

2) I took the 07MS Green samples from the Barco and Ampro and also ran them through activated carbon and a 0.1um filter. Drumroll...they came out crystal clear. I suspect the ampro and barco 07MS tubes will have clear blue-tube glycol - I haven't pulled a sample yet. As these MAY have been refilled by CJ and Drags, I dunno their history.

3) I've measured the index of refraction for all samples. The RI for the ampro, barco, and ECP tubes were respectively: 1.3405, 1.3435, and 1.3457. I was shocked as all of these are no where near any of Ethylene Glycol, Propylene Glycol, or Glycerol, which are, 1.4318, 1.4316, and 1.4729. What the hell?! This ain't no 70/30 mix of PG and glycerol. The viscosity alone looks like that of ~10%glycerol and 90%water. I'm guessing there is a lot of water in all of these, plus some salt. A few patents indicate salts were used. Unrelated, but neat 1933 CRT patent.

4) I've run some quick absorbance and transmission spectra on my UV/VIS from 200nm to 1100nm. The unadulturated blue 07MTS glycol does absorb differently than EG, PG, and Glycerol...what did they add?

SOOO....I think folks who simply replaced their AC machine's blue tube's glycol with clear 70/30 propylene glycol/glycerol or EG and water, etc. mixes may have been missing something.

Looks like I have some sleuthing work ahead of me this summer, starting with gas chromatography next week! Wink

Cheers,
Matt

I should note the n (index of refraction values) are +/- 0.0005 so you can really round to nearest 0.001...

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

I can absolutely guarantee you that I have never once refilled or touched the glycol in any Sony tube in any way, shape, or form.

The Sony tubes were pulled from a low end AmPro projector which came from the AmPro bankruptcy auction, and thus are very unlikely to have ever been
messed with. You can presume with a high degree of confidence that those tubes were in original condition as shipped by Sony.

CJ

mc86 · Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:31 am Post subject:

Awesome -- thanks CJ! Good to know moving foward. I don't think Drags touch the ones I got from him and as the two sets of glycol seem identical (so far, based only on green), this makes sense. I feel I still owe you a little more for these...

Matt

draganm · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado

the Barco tubes you got from me were un-toched, OEM

mc86 · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:13 am Post subject:

Thanks for confirming, Dragan -- as the 07MTS tubes in the ECP were surely OEM and came after the 07MS tubes, I wonder what SONY changed to the glycol between the 07MTS and the 07MS tubes. Has anyone else ever noticed the bluish-tinge to their "clear" blue glycol? If anyone has a junk 07MTS blue tube, could you pull some glycol and check it?

I'm really curious. I'm switching over to color filtered HD-145s for the fun of it and have to decide what version of clear coolant to put back in them.

Matt

mc86 · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject:

transmittance data

Here is the first-run of transmittance data, taken from the 07MS tubes CJ provided from an Ampro machine. Procedure was:

1) Used Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) and 0.25um particle filtered on optical fluid from Blue 07MS tube.
2) Compared against same sample ONLY particle filtered. Transmittance was effectively identical.
3) Used carbon/particle filtered blue as Baseline transmittance.
4) Determined relative transmittance for red, green, and 07MTS GAC/particle filtered blue as it had residual color.

These tested pretty differently from the dyes in the ECP 4500 07MTS tubes, which I will re-run next Friday. I left image large so it could be read...

Matt

dturco · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject:

I read that report with great interest...Geez we are such geeks Laughing

mc86 · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject:

OK -

Pretty sure I have identified, with the help of a great vendor, the dyes used for the Red and Green optical fluids (glycol, coolant, etc.). Drumroll........they appear to be: Acid Blue #9 and Acid Red #52. There are a bunch of nuances such as fluorescence on the red that varies and looks to be hindered different in the solutions, etc. that I won't go into. The ECP4500+ green is also a bit troublesome at lower levels...trying to understand that.

Should anyone want, I expect to have enough dye to make replacement fluid available to anyone needing to replace tinted glycol at cost shortly. With the instruments I have access to, I will be able to dial-up/down the light transmittance to match OEM values. I next need to determine what the primary/"clear" fluid is...clearly it is NOT glycerol/EG/PG heavy -- the Sony 07MS tubes appear to be 90+% water, actually. I should know from GC results sometime in next two months. IF I can find a good simulator like the folks at omega filters run for CRT phosphors, in principle I could create the ultimate, super-primo dye set (ie, not cheap!) that would be almost pure R,G,B. Of course, designers might have factored in shades from one tube balancing the others, etc.

Once I get to the bottom of the "fungus"/slime/crystals in the "glycol", I expect to remedy those problems to the full extent possible. In the meantime, I'll test interactions and absorbance of bactericide/fungicide (and trust/hope those aren't the problem already).

OH, recall only ~400nm to ~750nm is visible range.

Matt

barclay66 · Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject:

Matt,

This is amazing! I'd call it the perfect fusion of fundamental research and reverse engineering!

Regards,
barclay66

mc86 · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:47 am Post subject:

barclay -- thanks, but in my book this doesn't hold a candle to your I2C for controls work!
Matt