CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[mikeryan]

Hello Folks,

As I have read online the there is a great divide for those who like the Bose Lifestyles systems and those who would touch it with a ten foot pole. I am trying to decide on a sound system for a townhouse. The room is 12'4" x 12'3", so not very big. I am looking for an invisible system like the BOSE LIFESTYLE System T10 or T20. The BOSE systems range in price from 1700$ - 2300$ CND Which is pretty high but this would be my budget. I would love to spend less but definitely need the small theater system. I don't use very many Blu Rays so some sort of 1080P up scaling would be nice . I know this may not be your top choice but maybe someone can suggest some alternatives to the BOSE systems.

I look forward to your replies and appreciate your time taken to help me out.

Mike

[Curt Palme]

As a former large Bose dealer in the pro end of things, I can reply.

Overall, the consumer Bose stuff is way way way overpriced. The idea of course is great, HUGE wife approval factor, but the sub/satelllite idea isn't new, Bose just marketed the heck out of it. They succeeded, and everyone followed.

What a sub/satellite system like that is missing is upper bass/lower mids. Usually you don't notice it, but there's a big hole in the frequency response range.

Now, I'm assuming that you're talking about the all in 1 systems with the DVD player built in? I haven't followed the Bose line in years, but let's go with that. Everyone else calls that a home theater in a box, or HTIB. Walmart sells $150 cheapies, and of course those are worse than Bose. See my recent thread in the off topic section here, called 'how the mighty have fallen', or something like that. I serviced a 'high end' Harman Kardon HTIB and it was a piece of garbage.

What I'd recommend is as follows:

-do not buy a HTIB/ Get a mini stereo, a small 5.1 receiver, etc. Get a non Bose 5.1 speaker system. Something like Boston Acoustics would be cheaper, and would sound better. Connect that to the surround receiver. Get a DVD or BR player.

Now, you've made the system a bit more complicated to use over a HTIB, but with a good universal remote, you're set. The big thing is as well, if the DVD or BR player dies on you in a separate component system, you don't have to replace the whole system as you would with a HTIB.. Trust me, Bose stuff is NOT easy to work on, and is expensive to repair.

Also, read the Vizio thread here for an update on how disposable electronics really is. A friend does have the Bose surround system, it's worked fine for her for 5+ years, but she hardly uses it. Her Bose Sounddock died a premature death, and I'm taking a crack at repairing it. I'm not hopeful.

[Curt Palme]

As a former large Bose dealer in the pro end of things, I can reply.

Overall, the consumer Bose stuff is way way way overpriced. The idea of course is great, HUGE wife approval factor, but the sub/satelllite idea isn't new, Bose just marketed the heck out of it. They succeeded, and everyone followed.

What a sub/satellite system like that is missing is upper bass/lower mids. Usually you don't notice it, but there's a big hole in the frequency response range.

Now, I'm assuming that you're talking about the all in 1 systems with the DVD player built in? I haven't followed the Bose line in years, but let's go with that. Everyone else calls that a home theater in a box, or HTIB. Walmart sells $150 cheapies, and of course those are worse than Bose. See my recent thread in the off topic section here, called 'how the mighty have fallen', or something like that. I serviced a 'high end' Harman Kardon HTIB and it was a piece of garbage.

What I'd recommend is as follows:

-do not buy a HTIB/ Get a mini stereo, a small 5.1 receiver, etc. Get a non Bose 5.1 speaker system. Something like Boston Acoustics would be cheaper, and would sound better. Connect that to the surround receiver. Get a DVD or BR player.

Now, you've made the system a bit more complicated to use over a HTIB, but with a good universal remote, you're set. The big thing is as well, if the DVD or BR player dies on you in a separate component system, you don't have to replace the whole system as you would with a HTIB.. Trust me, Bose stuff is NOT easy to work on, and is expensive to repair.

Also, read the Vizio thread here for an update on how disposable electronics really is. A friend does have the Bose surround system, it's worked fine for her for 5+ years, but she hardly uses it. Her Bose Sounddock died a premature death, and I'm taking a crack at repairing it. I'm not hopeful.

[dvh99]

how can anything be worse then bose?

[Curt Palme]

SOME, I repeat, SOME Bose stuff is good. I was the largest pro dealer in BC in 2000. Sold about $50K worth of stuff that year.

THe Model 32 in ceiling speaker is stilll the best sounding ceiling speaker out there. JBL sucks, EV is tinny, TOA doesn't have a lot of bass.

The Bose 402 SCREAMS, and can take gobs of power. We put about 16 into an equestrian place, and as we were testing the system, I was walking along the stables. My installed did a page, and I turned around, I thought he was right behind me. The speaker was a good 150m away.

THe Panaray 502 works well in SOME installations. Good for small churches, crappy for nightclubs due to that mid bass lacking, same as the home stuff.

THeir older electronics was generally crap. THey've totally changed their line of products, and I understand that their line arrays are good.

Their business music stuff is crap, based on a powered amp version of the old AM-5 home speaker system.

Their listening tests at the Bose stores are funny, I laughed at the guy at West Edmonton Mall who asked at the end of the demo if it wasn't the best stereo I'd ever heard. In front of 10 other customers, I said 'NO', and walked out. I think the other customers thought I was a goof, and well.... they were right.

[Curt Palme]

SOME, I repeat, SOME Bose stuff is good. I was the largest pro dealer in BC in 2000. Sold about $50K worth of stuff that year.

THe Model 32 in ceiling speaker is stilll the best sounding ceiling speaker out there. JBL sucks, EV is tinny, TOA doesn't have a lot of bass.

The Bose 402 SCREAMS, and can take gobs of power. We put about 16 into an equestrian place, and as we were testing the system, I was walking along the stables. My installed did a page, and I turned around, I thought he was right behind me. The speaker was a good 150m away.

THe Panaray 502 works well in SOME installations. Good for small churches, crappy for nightclubs due to that mid bass lacking, same as the home stuff.

THeir older electronics was generally crap. THey've totally changed their line of products, and I understand that their line arrays are good.

Their business music stuff is crap, based on a powered amp version of the old AM-5 home speaker system.

Their listening tests at the Bose stores are funny, I laughed at the guy at West Edmonton Mall who asked at the end of the demo if it wasn't the best stereo I'd ever heard. In front of 10 other customers, I said 'NO', and walked out. I think the other customers thought I was a goof, and well.... they were right.

[AnalogRocks]

I did a comparison of BOSE 5.1 back in 1997-98 when I was speaker shopping. I ended up with a set of Paradigms. They sounded MUCH better. I was going to get the Titans but ended up with the Mini Monitors. Better midrange.

In another system I set up we went with PSB speakers. Similar to the Paradigm. Sounded better than the BOSE too.

[AnalogRocks]

I did a comparison of BOSE 5.1 back in 1997-98 when I was speaker shopping. I ended up with a set of Paradigms. They sounded MUCH better. I was going to get the Titans but ended up with the Mini Monitors. Better midrange.

In another system I set up we went with PSB speakers. Similar to the Paradigm. Sounded better than the BOSE too.

[WanMan]

[Curt Palme]

Hey, you know me, I'm a pretty no-BS kind of guy. Sometimes you need to use your ears. As I said, certain Bose products are great. Some are crap.

The one thing Bose has going for them for sure is the marketing. Apparently they are in the top 5 recognized names in the world. I had a Bose jacket given to me that year, and I got stopped more by random people asking about Bose than anything else. I've had EV jackets, blah blah.

As my sales rep said, with the Bose name being so recognized worldwide, why waste time convincing a customer to go with another speaker brand when they're ready to spend the extra money to buy Bose?

OTOH, when someone like the OP here actually comes online and does research, my sales hat is off, and I'll make different recommendations as I did above.

I was thinking last night though, again, Bose has it down when it comes to marketing. Their HTIB is probably not really any better than anyone else's, but it looks cool, they have the 'invisible' marketing attached to the speakers, which is a huge WAF, and then they put a $2K price tag on it, and they sell BUCKETS of it.

Go do a search on eBay though for 'Bose as is', and there's as much broken Bose as any other brand on there.

[Curt Palme]

Hey, you know me, I'm a pretty no-BS kind of guy. Sometimes you need to use your ears. As I said, certain Bose products are great. Some are crap.

The one thing Bose has going for them for sure is the marketing. Apparently they are in the top 5 recognized names in the world. I had a Bose jacket given to me that year, and I got stopped more by random people asking about Bose than anything else. I've had EV jackets, blah blah.

As my sales rep said, with the Bose name being so recognized worldwide, why waste time convincing a customer to go with another speaker brand when they're ready to spend the extra money to buy Bose?

OTOH, when someone like the OP here actually comes online and does research, my sales hat is off, and I'll make different recommendations as I did above.

I was thinking last night though, again, Bose has it down when it comes to marketing. Their HTIB is probably not really any better than anyone else's, but it looks cool, they have the 'invisible' marketing attached to the speakers, which is a huge WAF, and then they put a $2K price tag on it, and they sell BUCKETS of it.

Go do a search on eBay though for 'Bose as is', and there's as much broken Bose as any other brand on there.

[WanMan]

Curt, I wasn't picking on the level of equipment you were referring to. I presumed that since the low/no-end stuff was already expensive that the upper-line that you mentioned must be stratospheric in price and as such $50K covering about one system.

[Curt Palme]

Oh gotcha. No, the pro stuff pricing is in line with the competition, perhaps a bit higher, but again, the stuff sold itself.

They made a line called the 'business music system, and claimed that 1 dual 6" powered subwoofer and 4 cubes would cover 3500 feet of retail space.

Go into most Gap stores, and you'll see the Bose stuff. Subwoofers are usually in the ceiling, they now make a freehanging system I see as per the latest stores. The frequency response is all over the map depending on where you stand in the store, and each powered system is $2200 CDN retail, or at least it was 10 years ago. Pure crap!

But as I said, their model 32 4" in ceiling speaker with a tuned backbox and external eq module is killer. We put 100 into a local Westin hotel, and I still smile when I go do a service call there.

[Curt Palme]

Oh gotcha. No, the pro stuff pricing is in line with the competition, perhaps a bit higher, but again, the stuff sold itself.

They made a line called the 'business music system, and claimed that 1 dual 6" powered subwoofer and 4 cubes would cover 3500 feet of retail space.

Go into most Gap stores, and you'll see the Bose stuff. Subwoofers are usually in the ceiling, they now make a freehanging system I see as per the latest stores. The frequency response is all over the map depending on where you stand in the store, and each powered system is $2200 CDN retail, or at least it was 10 years ago. Pure crap!

But as I said, their model 32 4" in ceiling speaker with a tuned backbox and external eq module is killer. We put 100 into a local Westin hotel, and I still smile when I go do a service call there.

[ChrisWiggles]

If you want a no-thinking system, put in a Bose. Simple.

But if you care at ALL about sound, get something, ANYTHING else.

You could EASILY do a killer Paradigm setup, or something like an SVS sub/sat system or one of any number of smaller sub/sat type systems. Also consider in-wall speakers, which can also be exceptional (Triad, etc), and remain unobtrusive.

If you actually care about what the system SOUNDS like, you won't touch a lifestyle system with a 50-foot pole.

Their pro stuff is an entirely different matter. Their consumer stuff is antithetical for anyone who actually wants their SOUND system to, you know, SOUND acceptable.

[dvh99]

if i had the cash i would get some of those magnificent electrostatic speakers beun produces, but for now i will settle for some audiostatics and fiddle a bit with them.

[AnalogRocks]

This is a timely post. A friend of mine is looking at a set of BOSE. I'm steering him toward Paradigm. He wants small so I recommended a pair of titans. A cc3 center and a pair of in celling for the back channels

[AnalogRocks]

This is a timely post. A friend of mine is looking at a set of BOSE. I'm steering him toward Paradigm. He wants small so I recommended a pair of titans. A cc3 center and a pair of in celling for the back channels