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larryk
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Edmonton Alberta
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject: 4K laser home based projector in the works from RED |
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Red is working on a 4K laser projector to go with their game changing RED RAY delivery system. The home version of the RED RAY will only be a few hundred dollars and will allow you to stream or download 4K VIDEO AT ONLY 15 to 20 Mbs. The quality leaves Blu Ray in the dust and even makes a significant quality improvement over Blu Ray when outputting in 2K. Exciting times ahead.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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For anybody not into film production, Red is the company pushing the envelope on digital cinema production cameras affordable by small production companies, and being pretty disruptive in the industry in the process...
http://www.red.com
This is the PRO version of RED RAY that Larry is talking about...
http://www.red.com/products/red-ray
Following the RED tradition, their HD player is $7500 where most of the equipment from the competition is many, many times that price. Here's their official announcement in their user forum during NAB last month:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?57661-Official-NAB-announcements...
| Quote: | 1. The situation in Japan has affected us, along with the rest of the industry. We are like ants looking for an alternate route to the sugar. It is affecting EPIC-X and Scarlet 8X the most. We can't give specific dates because we are in line for parts from alternate suppliers along with everyone else. We do know that we are sitting here with a ton of inventory of parts and pieces ready to roll and the latest it could possibly be to get EPIC-X in production is June. We are trying for sooner. Even if we begin production in June, we think we can clear all orders by end of summer. We have purchased, at great expense, parts to make EPIC-Ms... and are ramping up production again on this model.
2. We announced the RED Dragon. It is of the Monstro family and is scheduled to be released in 2012. The significance of this sensor is that it is an upgrade to the current EPIC-X and EPIC-M and not a new brain. Obsolescence obsolete is alive.
3. We have shown the iPad "Mission Control" application.
4. We are working on a home 4K laser projector.
5. There is a new REDCINE-X to be released this week with Rocket support for EPIC and a ton of new features. N/C as always.
6. REDray Professional is scheduled to ship in June. Price to be announced prior to shipping. Well under $10K. REDray consumer in 2012 under $1000.
The uncertainty of supply chain weighs heavily on us. As paralyzed as we feel, we acknowledge that there are many others in Japan that continue to suffer unthinkable pain and consequences. The news is now diverting away from Japan, but the significance of the situation does not track with the news. It continues to be unimaginable.
Thanks to all of our customers for your support and patience. What we are attempting to do is unprecedented in any industry. We are swinging for the fences. Apparently, we are beginning to inspire others to step up their game. We like that. But we still are continuing to stretch towards the impossible for our customers and supporters.
Jim |
Here's a little review...
http://nofilmschool.com/2011/04/red-demonstrates-red-ray-4k-playback-system
Still, I'll be amazed if RED RAY ever graces our living rooms with a Hollywood movie in the player... First, we'd have to get over the hurdle again of the movie studios letting a copy like that out in the wild... We all know how the DRM worked out on BD. I would think it would be especially troubling for the studios, since if it's true they can average 10-15mbs, then the 4k RED RAY movies will be well under HALF the size of most BD's (maybe less), making moving the movies around on the internet even easier than it is with BD!!!
Then, there's the technical aspects of this... 4k is more than FOUR times the data/resolution of a 1080p on a BD. So, you'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that the technology currently exists to squash that signal (about 600MB/sec uncompressed, btw) to about 25% of the H.264 or VC-1 on a BD. Basically, that represents a 16x increase in codec efficiency over what we have with current codecs. Even if they found the magic to be able to compress like that, can you comprehend the computing power it would take? You'd probably need whatever quad core Intel Core i7 processor Intel will come out with next year to even play it... And the graphics cards... Wow... The mind boggles.
RED is awesome, and they've made digital cinema accessible like Apple made professional non-linear editing and post production... But, this one seems a bit far-fetched to me.
But, after seeing 4k on a big screen at CEDIA, if 4k in my theater is even a remote possibility, then I say "bring it on", RED! Hell, I'll be the first to chuck the few BD's I've bought to start watching movies in eye-popping 4k... Whenever I can afford the projector, that is... I don't think the G70 will resolve 4k very well... 
Only 17 left,
SC
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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do not worry, 6 g70s will resolve 4k just fine.
call me crazy but if i had the cash, i would try to get 4k working with crt with fast decaying phophorescent tubes of course for 3d. 
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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I will call you crazy. You would need to run 1600x1200 on all six pjs. It might look good but it would be a headache trying to blend all six of them. You can try it, but good luck.
4k digital pjs under $10k will be here by the middle of decade. I agree with Crabb that content distribution will be the biggest hurdle along with DRM. If it happens though, then I will be right behind Crabb.
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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just imagine the fun getting 6 pjs aligned  .
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1 answer always poses multiple questions.
marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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larryk
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Edmonton Alberta
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks ecrabb for posting all the info that I was too lazy to dig up. I agree that this technology will be a challenge to implement with the security concerns but Jim at Red seems to believe that he can achieve this with his existing player/encoder. This is not vapour ware. It was playing a 4K movie into a Sony 4K projector at NAB at 20 Mbits. One can also go to Red studios and view it on their 35 foot screen and compare quality. As a filmmaker I have used the 4K red one which was great but this summer our local coop with have an Epic 5K that will shoot at 120FPS. This camera is being used on pretty much every major motion picture now shooting in 3D. Even the film based movies are starting to be scanned in 4K lately so there will be a lot of major stuff as well as al lot of independent film, TV and even internet production that will be finished in and greatly benefit from 4K, which will provide opportunities for 4K delivery in niche markets at first then hopefully in the mainstream.
In the meantime I will keep my XG on the ceiling until I get a chance to try their laser PJ.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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A laser projector would be awesome. But how do they avoid the speckling effects?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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The sparkling effects? Maybe some kind of special diffusion layer on the screen or something, similar to what Mits is doing with their RP sets, perhaps.
What I'm wondering how they'll deal with is the "fries your retina" effects... 
Perhaps it won't be a collimated beam at all...
16,
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Kodak has supposedly solved the speckling effect. There was a demo last year. Hopefully they will have a demo at Cedia.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Just so no one picks on me I'll say that I read nothing.
I know the company, but laser has a CR that limits some useful applications to those of the CRT-kind. Now, if they can get a truly low BL and really high CR and it be only a "few hundred dollars" (yeah, right; someone forgot the word 'thousand' after the hundred) I'll bite.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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The VP of AVS attended a briefing from Kodak on their new laser PJ tech, which they will be licensing out to manufacturers. There's a good chance that the RED solution will be based on Kodak's light engine. I think there are 11 videos in all, but quite interesting - here a link to the intro, the links to the rest should appear on the right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTpGwyiB2OI&feature=channel_video_title
The whole series runs about 45 minutes or so, but it's an interesting watch. I eagerly look forward to seeing these projectors in commercial theaters, and hopefully in our homes.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
SC |
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larryk
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 106
Location: Edmonton Alberta
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| Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link to the videos. It all sounds good on paper and knowing what Red has achieved so far with their camera technology I think that they will be designing something from the ground up, maybe utilizing the laser driver technology from Kodak but ground breaking with respect to picture quality and price point. I would expect it to be of the quality for studios to be able to use it for colour grading, proofing, and DCP authoring linked with the Red Ray. I wouldn't be surprised if it is under 6,000.00 and up to 8,000 lumens.
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