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lovebohn
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Wisconsin
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Heh, I just commented. 
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TheVerge
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 928
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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weak
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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I tried to comment but when I hit send it said I had to be on Facebook, and I'm not. Anyone want to leave my comment?
"Lets not compare CRT projectors to digitals. There is no comparison. CRTs are king, not only in black level and film like reproduction, but you'll go through 10 or more projectors and 30 or more bulbs to even come close to the life of a CRT. The only reason they are loosing popularity is because of laziness. People unwilling to learn how to use something. And that's a fact, Jack!!!!!"
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I made a few comments... What a bunch of bull****. I'd bet money the dealer was one of those jackass high-end dealers like Sound By Singer that asks RIDICULOUS prices for older used gear. Let's see... You were asking $5000 for something that was worth $1000... Well, DUH it didn't sell!!!
Notice there are no details in the story about what prices were asked, what (if any) marketing avenues were used, or how long it sat around.
SC
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | I tried to comment but when I hit send it said I had to be on Facebook, and I'm not. Anyone want to leave my comment?
"Lets not compare CRT projectors to digitals. There is no comparison. CRTs are king, not only in black level and film like reproduction, but you'll go through 10 or more projectors and 30 or more bulbs to even come close to the life of a CRT. The only reason they are loosing popularity is because of laziness. People unwilling to learn how to use something. And that's a fact, Jack!!!!!" |
Excellent points. I have a 10 yr. old Toshiba 65" RPCRT that is still working beautifully that I hope will last another 10 yrs.!
The Moome and Fury products will see to that I hope(of course, subject to parts availability). As you so aptly stated general consumers are lazy and gullible to relate the bombardment of advertising to performance(Bose anyone?). Even with newer technologies it doesn't make sense the choices that are being made. When LCD and RP DLP sets came on the market, both pretty comparable in performance, however, because the consumer was being sold the nonsense of the so-called "thinner" sets, other than Mitsubishi, RP DLP died. I suppose one can argue overall performance and comparisons, however, the bottom line is DLP always represented much better value, especially in the larger screen models which are all but non-existent today in LCD. There is also the question of longevity. My son has a four year old LCD that died last night. These sets are so cheap now(and cheaply made), it is really not worth repairing.
It is kind of ironic to note that when CRT was king, no-one else thought about other competitive technologies in the marketplace, however, today there is Plasma, LCD and LCD LED and LcCos in FP and JVC, one time even had an RP LcCos that apparently few bought. It would seem because none of these technologies can offer the overall performance of the venerable CRT, they are introducing "stuff" just to cover their bums in the marketplace. Pretty sad.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ron, I'll agree with you on longevity, but I totally disagree on the rest...
Flat panel (of all technology) didn't essentially displace RP DLP/CRT because "the consumer was being sold the nonsense of the so-called "thinner" sets"... People (including myself) love them for a reason: Because you can have nice, decent-sized TV in a living space without the TV dominating that space. Even small RPTV's obliterated 6-10 square feet of floor space, and what, 20-30 cubic feet of volume? RPTV is just a giant pain in the ass... They're big, heavy, and dominate a room visually. They're a piece of furniture - furniture a lot of people don't have room for.
Even the much-small DLP RPTVs... They still take a piece of furniture to set them on, and they have a damn $200 bulb you have to replace to boot.
I love my two LCD TV's. One is hanging on the wall in the living room (a room which literally has almost no place for a traditional TV), and the other is on my bedroom dresser, the top of which is permanently distorted from the heavy-ass Sony Trinitron that sat on it before.
I do NOT miss my CRT TV's, and I never wanted an RPTV because of the size. I don't think I'm alone, and it isn't just marketing that made me feel that way.
SC
Last edited by ecrabb on Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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The article is so full fo false information it's obvious the guy sepnt zero time even looking into current CRT useage, despite how small the enthusiast side of it might be.
| Quote: | | Even hardcore video fanatics have by and large abandoned CRTs because of the constant attention they require to work optimally, limited brightness, and lack of current-gen HDMI input options. |
Granted if you google "vidikron vision 1 HDMI input options" the Moome card doesn't show up unti page 2, but it's there.
I seem to remember a Black Vision 1 sitting on Videogon for $3K for a long time. Now you might expect someone would keep lowering the price until it finally sold. At least to a point, say less than $1K and it's not worth their time to deal with it. So it must have been a pretty high end shop if they could afford to just scrap it.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I almost agree with your last post Steve except many people do have the room size for a nice RP CRT but may choose a flat panel merely for the gimmick part and not the picture quality part.
There is NOOOOO comparison between a nice RP CRT and a Plasma/LCD/DLP in both picture quality and longevity. Most people dont have a CRT projector hanging in a theater room so the main viewing is in there living room. So they do have a choice but many choose based on incorrect information.
If you didn't have a theater and your living room was a little larger(I dont know what you mean by small) and you wanted to enjoy a nice image for movie viewing would you still make the same choices?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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I was at a broadcast Sony dealer yesterday and they had a flat screen LCD on the wall with short video clips extolling the virtues of some broadcast Sony videocam. Not sure if it was the camera shots or the display, but they all looked terrible. It's not something I'd display if I had a showroom.
Also, FWIW, after 5 months of almost nothing, I sold about 8 CRTs in the last 10 days. Not sure why the sudden surge, it was an equal split between HT and industrial customers, but CRT apparently isn't dead... yet...
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | If you didn't have a theater and your living room was a little larger(I dont know what you mean by small) and you wanted to enjoy a nice image for movie viewing would you still make the same choices? |
Yep, even if I didn't have my theater, I would make the same choices, Mac... If my living room were my only place to view, I'd get a really nice, big 1080p LED-lit LCD with local-dimming, long-term reliability be damned.
I saw Sony's new sets with LED matrix with local-dimming at CEDIA and they were truly gorgeous - a massive improvement over edge-lit designs, great on/off, and far superior uniformity to any projection design. In fact, I disagree with your characterization that there is no comparison between RP CRT and flat panel in terms of picture quality...
Much like the front-projection debate, similar things can be said about RP CRT vs. flat panel: Color, brightness, sharpness and real resolution are both better (especially with calibration), and uniformity is FAR superior on the flat panel. Oh, and there's viewing angle, too... RPTV's usually suck because of their high-gain screens. Gee, I bet nobody has trouble with that in their cramped living rooms!
PQ is certainly important to me, but not so important that I'd be willing to have my living room look like ass... Which it definitely would with any kind of RP set. I suspect others feel the same way, and I suspect like me, others make choices more because they have different priorities than some of you guys, and not because they have any incorrect information.
SC
Last edited by ecrabb on Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | If you didn't have a theater and your living room was a little larger(I dont know what you mean by small) and you wanted to enjoy a nice image for movie viewing would you still make the same choices? |
most people don't give a crap about pic quality. The number one biggest driving factor is how the set looks while turned OFF and sitting there.
I just realized on the stupid article in audiophole review, the $400. Moome card is about what you would pay in TAXES on one of those Meridian processors. Someone should post that. 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | most people don't give a crap about pic quality. |
Don't give a crap, or it isn't their number-one consideration? Because, in the grand scheme, for non-enthusiasts, a TV is a TV is a TV. Really. Does American Idol or the nightly news really look that different from TV to TV? Not really. Just like to some people, a car is a car is a car. IIRC, you're even kind of coming around to that line of thinking, Dragan...
| draganm wrote: | | The number one biggest driving factor is how the set looks while turned OFF and sitting there. |
Again, perhaps not number one... But, like the style of your home, or your car, aesthetics do matter to people... And there's nothing wrong with that.
A TV isn't a hammer or screwdriver; a utilitarian tool that just performs a job. Like a refrigerator, dresser, sofa, or even a window, in addition to performing a function, ALSO impacts the space it occupies: Visually, aesthetically, and functionally. That impact is important to some people.
SC
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Based on the digital owners that Ive talked to, I think very few people really do research other than viewing online specs and comments from others. Gone are the days of A/B comparisons between audio and video equipment for the layman. When WalMart and Best buy are the main places to buy electronics, it's a sad time indeed, never mind that most people buy online, based on price only.
Man, I spent many hours reading Stereo Review back in the day when I was building my first stereo system up....
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I spent 5 months WATCHING 27" TV's back in 1998 before I decided on the one I wanted.
A friend of mine thought that odd. He said something to the effect of " A TV's a TV. One's just as good as another"
Then I schooled him, even his wife could see the difference. To this day he doesn't just go out and grab the cheapest priced TV. He asks to WATCH them for a while first. The sales guys get pissed off and walk away when he says he's not taking it right away.
_________________
Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm... I don't know about characterizing "digital owners" as a group... Based on my personal experience, most digital owners are very well-read, know exactly where their equipment falls short, and where it excels. Yeah, they read comments from others, because they CAN! Back in the day, everybody read magazine reviews like Stereo Review because there WAS no other place to go! Today, enthusiasts spend hours pouring over a few magazines, but more likely forums and web sites.
Don't confuse casual users with enthusiasts... There have always been casual users of everything that annoyed the enthusiasts... You know, the guy could afford the enthusiast's sports car - but it was just his daily driver...
I guess I just don't see much difference then and now in terms of what people bought and how they bought it, save for how inexpensive the technology has gotten. The prices have simply allowed WAY more people into the fold, and it annoys some of you guys that they're not enthusiasts who care about all the same things as you guys...
SC
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, you said it better than I did. I agree, esp with your last sentence.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose the discussion on both sides of the issue have merit, however, in the case of those that frequent this particular forum, given the weight, size and the space required and the determination of that beforehand, I would venture to say it is highly unlikely that those that still tout CRTs(including myself) and their performance capabilities, took in to consideration convenience as an important factor in their purchase.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron W wrote: | | I suppose the discussion on both sides of the issue have merit, however, in the case of those that frequent this particular forum, given the weight, size and the space required and the determination of that beforehand, I would venture to say it is highly unlikely that those that still tout CRTs(including myself) and their performance capabilities, took in to consideration convenience as an important factor in their purchase. |
Convenience?? What is this convenience you speak of?
Hands up all here that own more than one 4 wheel moving dolly.
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CRT.
HD done right!
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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