CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[JustGreg]

Apparently my Marquee 8500 fed PS3 via EXT-FULLHD v2 (manuf date of 12/09) won't/can't play nice nice with the movie Avatar. I've ruled out cabling, PS3 XMB firmware version, EXT jumper settings, and bad disc. (Avatar plays fine @720p with the EXT out of the chain and using a GammaX and HDFURY Gamer).

I've spent literally hours going through as many boolean-esque Google searches as my tired brain can formulate and I've come to the conclusion that....It isn't surprising (I'm having problems) getting the EXT v2 to work given the sheer number of Google hits for "Avatar won't play". I can only surmise the EXT has DRM issues (AACS MKB has been updated to v17 and BD+ to v5] Many, many consumers with a wide range of different branded standalone BD players aren't faring much better than I; even with current firmware updates!

Way-ta-go Fox Studios! You ever hear of a frigging telephone (to call Sony about THEIR BD standards?) before you spooged out your DRM brainchild?!!!; you arrogant shmucks! Once again the consumer takes it in the ass because of a studios anemic efforts to prevent unquantifiable losses from piracy!

I guess the ball is in my court....so the big question for moome is; will making the EXT v2 'compliant' with modern totalitarian DRM be as easy as an update? (And I don't mean update to the v3!)

Back to the lab slash HT to whip it into shape for guests tomorrow. (In order to present Avatar to the masses it will be shown sans EXT v2)

[Ron W]

[JustGreg]

OK...first, Merry Christmas everyone!

Second, problem solved. It isn't a problem with the EXTv2 after all....it's a PS3 Video Output setting, specifically 'BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)' under Settings --> Video Output. The options in this (sub) area are:

Automatic
RGB
Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr

RGB has to be selected and H&V have to be jumpered positive on the FULLHD. I have Black Boost and Enhanced color space dip's on (dips 1 and 3).

The reason I missed the answer the first time I worked with this setting is that there was no output to the pj (black screen) so I assumed the setting wasn't what I was looking for. The second time I reinvented the wheel I changed ouput to RGB and cycled the power of the EXT.
There are many other settings that I suspect have an impact on the output quality of the FULLHD (IFB or EXT) and will post them as I work them out.

I ran out of time and energy early this AM to fully investigate whether the Gamma and Contrast pots still functioned because for those to function the PS3 has to output a compatible color space. I'm not well versed enough on that subject to say but will work some more with it once company leaves today and post back.

Hopefully this will help save others the frustration of trying to 'find the corner in a round room' that I went through. Who woulda thunk that as long as the EXT and FULLHD's have been around this simple info would be so Google obscure.

[Tom.W]

Avatar is the problem. Fox screwed the pooch with a DRM stick.....

[JustGreg]

Merry Christmas Tom.

I agree with that but at least the PS3 is updated regularly whereas people with older BD players are just plain screwed. What manufacturer will release an update that ensures loss of future earnings! Not many, especially Samsung from what I gleaned from 100's of Yahoo rants on the subject (at the time Avatar was released).

Sony's monopoly of the BD format is working out well eh? All these years after 'winning' and the format is still hosed and in flux. The majority of consumers just want to slip a disc in and watch a movie like the 'good ole days' of DVD. They know nothing of software/firmware updates and either can't comprehend it, don't care to learn, and are either way pissed their purchases can be rendered obsolete so easily. In many cases the complainants had only had their players a week before it was neutered; and price and branding was no safety net either.

This outcome is no surprise to those of us who are into AV. Sonys rush to 'win (the format war) at all costs' was sure to end badly for consumers when they are the only game in town.

[Tom.W]

Greg it's kinda funny I bought this disk from Amazon and when I informed them I couldn't watch it on my BR player they refunded the purchase price and didn't even want me to send the disc back....

I wonder who ate the losses ?

[JustGreg]

I found some old-er info from AVS that should help others understand the PS3 BD video settings and related HDMI specifications. Credit goes to poster Ron Jones. Google wasn't my friend these last few days of searching; it was a fluke I stumbled onto this.

"There seems to be some confusion between analog component video (which uses YPrPb), analog RGB (as used with a PC's VGA interface), and the encoded digital video formats used with HDMI. HDMI can provide the video information, in digital, in two alternative forms. In one case it is digitally encoded YPrPb and in the other case it is digitally encoded RGB. Currently 8-bits are used to encode each of the 3 'component" colors (be they either Y, Pr and Pb -OR- red, blue and green). The digital video information for HD video sources, such as Blu-ray, HD-DVD, DVD, Directv, etc., is encoded as YPrPb therefore outputting the video via HDMI in YPrPb format involves the least processing by the source device. Most HDTVs ultimately must process the incoming digital video information into a RGB form because the display device is using red, blue and green (subpixels) to created the color image (be it plasma, LCD, CRT, DLP or LCOS technology). In general it is probably best to use the YPrPb via HDMI format out of the source device and then let the HDTV do whatever processing it needs to do. Some HDTVs (e.g., front projector which are more oriented toword the PC world) may only accept the digital information in RGB format via HDMI (or DVI) and in this case RGB format is the only choice. Also in some cases the processing to do the conversion from YPrPb to RGB may be higher quality within source device than the video processing within the HDTV and in those cases you may get better results using RGB out of the source device.
As for the best setting for the HDMI output on a PS3, I would start of with YPrPb with superwhite on. As for "superwhite" the official spec. for video via HDMI only uses the digital range of 16 to 235 for each of the component video elements (i.e., using 8-bits to encode each of the 3 component colors). In normal mode the PS3 will not pass values above 235 to the display device. Turning superwhite on allows all values up to 255 to be output. This is only significant for discs that actually used values above 235 to encode the video.

As for "RGB Full" via HDMI option on the PS3, at this point it is a poor choice except for displays specifically intended as computer displays. This mode takes the 16-to-235 values (intended for digital video) and maps them to and expanded range of 0-to-255 values for each R, G and B (normally used with computer displays). For HDTVs that do take an HDMI-RGB input and are designed for digital video, not just PC use, the more optium setting for the HDMI would be RGB limited (simply outputs the values 16-to-235 with no mapping involved). "

Apparently I got the EXT to work but it isn't optimal with RGB selected. I won't post my results as Ron Jones' post covers what I should find. If the latest PS3 firmware causes me to realize different results I will post back for that. moome might want to post some form of this info on his site, or here, to assist people with not just PS3 BD questions but BD in general.

Ref: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868032

Expanded PS3 manual that goes into more detail than the paper manual.
http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/bdsettings.html