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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? - Now TUBE PICS!!!# |
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I might be able to acquire a G70 for not-mucho-dinero. Right now I've got a bg808s which has served me well. I've got color filtering on it, the 'stig isn't half bad, it's as bright as Stephen Hawking, and it's been dead reliable.
But it's got 10k on the clock, non-optimal tubes, and is 12 years old. I'm finding out how old the g70 is, but it's got essentially new b/g tubes and the r is mint.
The main reasons I can think of for upgrading are LC, tube quality, and newness - read, reliability.
So, is a newer G70 less likely to die catastrophically than a 12-year-old Barco 808? If it does, will repair costs be similar?
I understand that the G70 doesn't have the G90's deathchip in it, so that's a plus...
Also on the negative side is the ENORMOUS amount of work it will take to pull down the barco, put up the g70, do the setups, learn to set up the g70 (which is going to be completely different than the barco), etc...
Thoughts?
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Last edited by perisoft on Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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My G70 has 11k on the clock, with the exception of two power supply boards that died at around 5k hours and a few loose connections it has been dead reliable.
When my boards died it cost $250 to send them to Curt and have all the boards tested and repaired. If for any reason you choose not to pursue this deal I'd lile to know more as my tubes are showing age and I wouldn't mind a better machine if you pass on it.
If you do get the machine you're welcome to stop by my place and I'll give you an overview of the machine and the setup procedures.
Erik
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | My G70 has 11k on the clock, with the exception of two power supply boards that died at around 5k hours and a few loose connections it has been dead reliable.
When my boards died it cost $250 to send them to Curt and have all the boards tested and repaired. If for any reason you choose not to pursue this deal I'd lile to know more as my tubes are showing age and I wouldn't mind a better machine if you pass on it.
If you do get the machine you're welcome to stop by my place and I'll give you an overview of the machine and the setup procedures.
Erik |
Thanks! I spent a bunch of time with a 1271, and I understand they're fairly similar. I'm spoiled from the point on the 808s; it ONLY uses point, basically. The internal four point quadrants do horiz and vertical size; no separate geometry. You just set up green geometry, h/v linearity for r/b with rough convergence, and then point. Done. The 1271 seemed to want detailed geometry for each tube (which is a pain) and my understanding is that everything but barcos will scream if you need more than a click or two of point.
The other question is whether the projection geometry will even allow it to be used in the same configuration as my Barco, which is ceiling mounted but about 8" down from the ceiling so I can throw to a 90" screen whose bottom is only a couple of feet off the floor.
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Well you get LC (which is a nice upgrade) and better lenses. I don't think parts are a problem for the G70 but they are probably a bit less common than Barco parts. The negative is I think the G70 has more fan noise and the hassle factor of changing out projectors. You might also want to check throw distance as you might need to move you mounting point. Only you can decide the hassle factor but I think it would be a decent upgrade.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Throw distance is pretty close, IIRC. Maybe ~10% further back - less than a foot in my install, IIRC.
All comes down to how much money you'll have to spend to buy it. Age-wise, the G70 will probably only be a year or two newer. Reliability-wise, according to Curt, they should be comparable. According to Draganm, the G70 is an unreliable POS that will be broken every day you try to use it. There are a couple of common failures, but nothing spares aren't plentiful for.
What lenses do you have on your 808s, Perisoft? Do you still have the shitacular HD-8's on there, or did you upgrade? The sharpness increase was huge going from my old 1271 (with HD-8's) to the minty G70, but then your 808 is much better than a 1271 (but not that much better if it has the same sh*tty lenses).
The other thing is LC. Those who don't have it (or haven't seen it) generally don't know what they're missing. Most of those who do have it, wouldn't want to live without it. Personally, I could NEVER go back to an AC machine. Better contrast, MUCH reduced halos on bright spots (like titles, start, streetlights, etc.)
If you can get it cheap, and the machine is in good shape, I'd get it and try it and play with it, then keep the one you like best and sell or part out the other one.
SC
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | T
The other thing is LC. Those who don't have it (or haven't seen it) generally don't know what they're missing. Most of those who do have it, wouldn't want to live without it. Personally, I could NEVER go back to an AC machine. Better contrast, MUCH reduced halos on bright spots (like titles, start, streetlights, etc.)
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So true. I went from an 8" AC to a 9" LC set so it is hard for me to draw a line exactly where the LC benefits end and the 9" benefits begin, but there is just something about the picture I get now with by 1209s that my 808s with upgraded P16s just couldn't do and I think much of it is related to LC. Same applies to color filtering too, once you have it you cannot go back.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Steve and Secretary of State. Right now my Longbows are AC and I forgot how much more contrast you cain with LC and not to mention no halos. After doing some work on a local 9500LC and setting up and calibrating it I realized what I am missing.
I was going to wait for the AC tubes to just burn out and go LC but I think this winter might see the conversion happening to 9 inch LC and then I'll make the 8 inch tubs LC's and sell them.
So peri get the LC G70 and keep the 808 for a back up Set.
Athanasios
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| perisoft wrote: | The main reasons I can think of for upgrading are LC, tube quality, and newness - read, reliability.
Thoughts? |
you'll get 3 of those but not the 4th IMO. + you'll be picking up lots of noise as Barco built the quietest CRT PJ's and Sony some of the loudest. I'm going to be the only one here who votes no but since your getting it anyway  don't pay more than it's value in parts.
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winduptoy
Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Lunenburg, Nova Scotia
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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The G70 is very easy to setup. It's also been a very stable machine, especially since I put the Moome HDMI card in almost 2 years ago.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| draganm wrote: | | perisoft wrote: | The main reasons I can think of for upgrading are LC, tube quality, and newness - read, reliability.
Thoughts? |
you'll get 3 of those but not the 4th IMO. + you'll be picking up lots of noise as Barco built the quietest CRT PJ's and Sony some of the loudest. I'm going to be the only one here who votes no but since your getting it anyway don't pay more than it's value in parts. |
I think you're familiar with this one, dragan - and that's something I forgot to mention: It's got a toasted b-board, apparently.
Anyone know what the db differences are for barco vs. sony? My 808 is kinda on the loud side, since it's hung fairly low... it bothers me a little bit. In the winter when I've got the pellet stove and blower on, it's a moot (mute?) point, but in the summer PJ noise is noticeable.
And no, I'm not necessarily getting it. I might get it and part it; the parts are worth more than the PJ definitely. Just the tubes are. The question is whether I raise some money from the 808 and some other crap I have lying around and replace it with the G70.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:29 am Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| perisoft wrote: | | I think you're familiar with this one, dragan - and that's something I forgot to mention: It's got a toasted b-board, apparently.. |
I sold only 1 G70 many years ago. hmmm, maybe this guy bought some parts off me? I did part 2 or 3 out. No B-boards left though and I recently gave some G70 stuff away too.
If it's cheap grab it.
G70 LC chambers are also popular for Barco conversions 
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betel
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 448
Location: Maryville, Tennessee (Just South of Knoxville)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:29 am Post subject: |
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I went from a BG808s to a G70 and I can tell you the image quality is significatly better on the G70. I think an AC machine like the BG808s is best used as a computer monitor. Where a filtered/LC machine like the G70 is best for video. I ran the G70 about three years before upgrading to a G90. Never have had a problem with the G70. Sold it to a guy I work with and its still going strong. As for as noise, I'd say the G70 is slightly less noisy. It would be a shame to part out a pefectly working G70.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| draganm wrote: | [
G70 LC chambers are also popular for Barco conversions |
How would you even do that? Aren't LC setups matched to the tubes? Or are you meaning, you get new tubes and use the chambers?
That ain't gonna happen. 
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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So, I may be going to check out the PJ this afternoon. It passed WAF (!)...
I should note that it also has a Moome HDMI card, an original HD Fury, and an RTC2200...
Anything I should look for aside from the obvious? It'll run test patterns but the inputs are screwed up due (probably) to the aforementioned b-board.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| betel wrote: | | As for as noise, I'd say the G70 is slightly less noisy. |
 The 2 Barcos I heard , a BG808 and 1209 were so quiet I could hardlt tell they were on. Does the 808S use a different cooling system?
| perisoft wrote: | | draganm wrote: | [
G70 LC chambers are also popular for Barco conversions |
How would you even do that? Aren't LC setups matched to the tubes? Or are you meaning, you get new tubes and use the chambers?
That ain't gonna happen. |
yes you would need new Barco tubes. I was joking, it's a huge project. Hey if the 70 comes with all that extra stuff and needs only a B-board get it. Curt can fix most anything in there and the DC board he actually brings up to better than new with more robust STK chips.
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| perisoft wrote: | | draganm wrote: | [
G70 LC chambers are also popular for Barco conversions |
How would you even do that? Aren't LC setups matched to the tubes? Or are you meaning, you get new tubes and use the chambers?
That ain't gonna happen. |
My recollection is that Terry did this. He used the LC chambers from an Barco retro but the c-elements and lenses from a G70. As I recall he, or maybe it was Galen did this to one or two Barco's. Honestly not worth it in this day and age.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: G70 vs. 808s - upgrade or not? |
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| secstate wrote: | | perisoft wrote: | | draganm wrote: | [
G70 LC chambers are also popular for Barco conversions |
How would you even do that? Aren't LC setups matched to the tubes? Or are you meaning, you get new tubes and use the chambers?
That ain't gonna happen. |
My recollection is that Terry did this. He used the LC chambers from an Barco retro but the c-elements and lenses from a G70. As I recall he, or maybe it was Galen did this to one or two Barco's. Honestly not worth it in this day and age. |
Yeah... might be if I could use the sony tubes, since they're brand new (supposedly) but then there'd be no reason not to just use the whole PJ, since the chassis isn't worth a cent without the tubes.
It's looking more likely... Hopefully I can check it out this afternoon.
I'm hoping I can throw some 1080 test patterns with it to check out the state of the magnetics. I'm not sure I'll have enough time to pull the B/G lenses, unfortunately - but I should be able to blast some light in there or light up the raster a bit and get a pretty good idea. Either they're new or not; if they've got any wear at all I'll know the guy is clueless which'll be a red flag.
Here's hoping it's good!
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:15 am Post subject: |
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So, I went to see it. It looks pretty good.
First: The guy pulled the Moome card, and all the inputs started working again. Hmm. So, maybe it's an intermittent problem that fixed itself when he wiggled the card (which seems unlikely since he spent a bunch of time reseating things) or there's some fault with the Moome card that's causing the PJ to not take input. If that's the case, celebrate, because I don't particularly care about HDMI input. It might be nice at some point, but it's not a huge deal. Also there's the HDFury that comes with it...
Or he missed some config thing, and on page two of the Moome manual it says, "Do not accidentally bump DIP switch 2, or all inputs will be disabled" or something.
Impressions vs. my Barco-
* It's bright as HELL. Maybe he has a really freaking high gain basement wall, or maybe my barco's tubes are just worn out. Dunno. But I was shocked when it fired up with a similar size image EASILY visible in flourescent light.
* It's reasonably quiet. Not much louder than the Barco; maybe quieter. The fans are higher pitched, though, and have a beat frequency that the Barco doesn't.
* Christ, that thing was bright.
I didn't have time to do any checks on focus, etc.
I did get some pictures. Anyone know a rough build date from the serial?
I think I can live with the tubes...
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: |
First: The guy pulled the Moome card, and all the inputs started working again. Hmm. |
Personally, I've had a LOT of bad experiences with ANY Moome device. It doesn't surprise me one bit that pulling it solved the issues with the projector. The Moome devices I've had, have been great examples of high percentage defect buggy crap with virtually no evidence of quality control...
Those tubes look excellent.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | | perisoft wrote: |
First: The guy pulled the Moome card, and all the inputs started working again. Hmm. |
Personally, I've had a LOT of bad experiences with ANY Moome device. It doesn't surprise me one bit that pulling it solved the issues with the projector. The Moome devices I've had, have been great examples of high percentage defect buggy crap with virtually no evidence of quality control...
Those tubes look excellent. |
Great set Peri Grab it!!!!
Paul, i have had 5 moome products and all still work flawlessly. Not one issue ever, and extremely well built.
Athanasios
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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
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