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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:15 pm Post subject: Colors are way off |
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Guys
A few months ago, one of my amp cards blew in my 4000G Ampro. Curt sent me a replacement, although it is not the same revision number. I don't know if this could have anything to do with it but, I am unable to dial in the colors ever since. Since I have not had a reply in the calibration forum to the question I posted on July 9, I figured I would try here. Now the first time around trying to dial this in with a spyder, I got a fairly good looking grayscale but, the colors were all wrong. Peoples faces were to red. After reading the "Which meter is right for you" thread, I purchased an I1 display2 thinking my first meter was crap. Unfortunately, I did not get much difference.The luminance value is way down but the picture is as bright as before. The pj set up was redone completely from alignment, astigmation and convergence. I am about ready to take it down from the ceiling but before throwing in the towel, I thought I would see if you guys had any idea what the problem could be. I would like to mention that, before the amp card was replaced, the picture quality was very good although, at that time, I had never taken measurements with a meter because I deemed it was unneccessary. I could possibly tweak it to get a better grayscale but figured if I cant get the colours dialed in then, what is the use. And yes I know, it's an Ampro.
Thank's
Don
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Did you set the G-2 on the replacement neck board? Also, the tube that sucked the neck board might have a problem.
What color failed?
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Did you set the G-2 on the replacement neck board? Also, the tube that sucked the neck board might have a problem.
What color failed?
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Yes G2 was set and it was the blue tube.
Don
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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With no input signal are all the tubes dark ?
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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | With no input signal are all the tubes dark ? |
Yes they are.
Don
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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What test patterns are you using to set the grayscale?
A graybar test pattern is very useful.
The easiest way to set the grayscale on your projector is to input RGB at the resolution that you use. Set the remote control contrast and bright to minimum. Adjust G-2 so the raster is just BARELY visible while looking into the lens.
Now set remote control bright to 70. Adjust the sub-brite controls so the darkest bar (0 IRE) of a graybar pattern is just visible when looking in the lens.
Set remote control contrast to 70. Cut-off the blue. Adjust red and green sub contrast controls for yellow. Turn on the blue and adjust blue sub contrast control for gray.
Now you can use a color meter, in the bright areas, to set for the color temperature that you want. It is best to use the center of the picture for the measurements as there is some red and blue shading on the sides.
Scott
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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Adjust the sub-brite controls so the darkest bar (0 IRE) of a graybar pattern is just visible when looking in the lens.
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Those must be the red,green and blue pots located on the rgb board inside the projecter next to the master sub contrast?
| Quote: | | Adjust red and green sub contrast controls for yellow |
Those must be the drive pots located to the rear of the rgb board outside of the pj?
| Quote: | | Turn on the blue and adjust blue sub contrast control for gray. |
I imagine this is done once I dial in the yellow?
| Quote: | | Now you can use a color meter, in the bright areas, to set for the color temperature that you want. |
I dont understand this one. Once I get the gray scale correct,what will using a color meter do to improve the colors?
Don
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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another way of setting g2 is to project a 22:9 image on a 16:9 raster, adjust g2 so the nonactive bars do not light up on the tube face, this way you can set bright and contrast at 50-50 or whatever you prefer.
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marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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kelvin temperature.
9500k or 6500 are different but set it for 6500, 9500 has more blue. lower then 6500k has more red.
_________________
1 answer always poses multiple questions.
marquee 9500ultra HD10L moome hdmi1.3 v3+ some mods.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| donr wrote: | | Quote: | Adjust the sub-brite controls so the darkest bar (0 IRE) of a graybar pattern is just visible when looking in the lens.
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Those must be the red,green and blue pots located on the rgb board inside the projecter next to the master sub contrast?
| Quote: | | Adjust red and green sub contrast controls for yellow |
Those must be the drive pots located to the rear of the rgb board outside of the pj?
| Quote: | | Turn on the blue and adjust blue sub contrast control for gray. |
I imagine this is done once I dial in the yellow?
| Quote: | | Now you can use a color meter, in the bright areas, to set for the color temperature that you want. |
I dont understand this one. Once I get the gray scale correct,what will using a color meter do to improve the colors?
Don |
Yep, the sub-brite controls are on the daughter bd for the RGB board by the sub contrast control. You might have to toggle 48 code to get the right clamp. 4 or 5 wire RGB will use sync tip clamp. 3 wire RGB (sync on green, tri-level sync probably won't work right) uses back porch clamp.
The sub-contrast controls are the drive pots on the panel of the RGB bd. At least one should be at max when white balance is set.
Once you have a good yellow turn on the blue and adjust blue sub-contrast (drive) for gray/white.
All of the above adjustments can be done by eye. That is how Ampro did it at the factory. If you want exactly some color temp break out the meter and make whatever small adjustments to the sub-contrast you need. The sub-brites are already set, don't mess with them.
You do need a gray scale pattern to do this. If you are using a color picture you are not likely to get it right. You can try tuning in an old black and white movie and use it if you have nothing else.
Scott
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"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Well, I have tried the method discused. G2 is set and I do get yellow and what looks to be a very good gray scale. I have played with the red green and blue sub contrast. The image is somewhat better but even with the red drive completely down, I still get a pinkish image. I will try to swap the amp cards tomorow to see if that makes a difference.
Don
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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I spent the week trying to get this right. Swapped amp cards, redid G2 and verified everything was done as per Scott's instructions. Still no go. Is it possible something on the rgb card went south when the ampcard blew? I do have a scope but no color generator to try it out as in the service manual. Would a test disc do the same and if so,what pattern should I use?
Don
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donr
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 162
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Guys
Thanks for all your help. I found the problem.   A few weeks ago, I unplugged the rgb cable going to the pj. When I connected it back, I reversed the green an blue.  After a few minutes toying with Scotts procedure, I have a decent picture finally. When all else fails, return to basics. 
Don
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incova
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 789
Location: london
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:56 pm Post subject: heh |
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I did exactly the same thing once, I was just going to post when I saw your answer, really mucks up your day doesnt it!?
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The more I learn
the less I know.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Flipping the RGB cables around makes for neat Hallowe'en effect. Try Red on the Green 
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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LOL, school of hard knocks costs more than just money.
My cheap Chinese POS Helios DVD player had B + G switched when you used the VGA output to 5BNC. Try figuring THAT one out. The picture looked right when you had the blue lead on the VIM's G BNC and vice versa for Blue.
I use a Moome card now for all testing after HD mod's and it's so much easier than all those RGB cables anyway. You don't even need to look to plug it in. 
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