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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:55 am Post subject: 9500LC Ultra strange center convergence issue (CLM related) |
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Hi Guys, I have been working on a local marquee owners 9500LC . Greg had really bad Fungus on the Blue tube . I replaced all the bellows and went back today to put her back together and set it up. Well right away there was a miss-convergence on the blue tube. He said that it was there before I started the work on the bellows and forgot to mention it. I never noticed it when I first went there as the fungus was so bad a blue convergence grid was just one big blob.
When in convergence menu the red and blue center convergence does not move those grids, green service works fine.
Red and blue does not move till I switch colors and then the move happens. I decided to converge the rest of the grids
zones since they worked just fine, only the center would not move and it was skewed to the right.
I took out the CLM removed each chip and the smaller boards replaced then and still the same.
I now have the board here and it displays the same issue only on my test bed M8000 the red and blue grids do move but the skewed center grid is still there.
Here are pics of the grids on my Machine and they look exactly the same on his Ultra. Ignore the levels of grid intensity, the camera had that scrolling effect going on.
I have never seen this before, a initialization and a reset on the CLM did not fix it.
I swapped out a know good DPB on the CLM and still the same so its not the DPB.
Any Ideas?Any one seen this before? I'll dive into the manual tomorrow.
Athanasios
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J Kildare
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Athanasios
I think static convergence is controlled thru hdm.
Jim
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Bizarre. It looks like the point convergence is active in the center. Didja try disconnecting the convergence coil to see if that is where it is coming from?
Scott
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Not yet. It was getting late and its about an 45 minute drive. It does it on mine too so I'll test it in an hour or so, last night I didn't think of that. I also have his HDM with me . I'll try his with his CLM and my CLM as well. Is there anything in the timing menus that might have changed?I was going to look in there as well.
Athanasios
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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The center convergence is working, but the red is controlling the blue and vice/versa.
The problem is on the control board... sometimes it'll go away after full initialization. If not - replace the CLM!
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | The center convergence is working, but the red is controlling the blue and vice/versa.
The problem is on the control board... sometimes it'll go away after full initialization. If not - replace the CLM! |
You might be right Mike, Is there a way to have all grids lit up while doing convergence to see that happen? Because from my explanation it does seam that is what's going on.
But what about the deflected center grid zone? I never seen that.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | The center convergence is working, but the red is controlling the blue and vice/versa.
The problem is on the control board... sometimes it'll go away after full initialization. If not - replace the CLM! |
You might be right Mike, Is there a way to have all grids lit up while doing convergence to see that happen? Because from my explanation it does seam that is what's going on.
But what about the deflected center grid zone? I never seen that.
Athanasios |
swap the red and blue on the HDM - that would allow you to see/confirm that you're actually controlling the grids.
The center zone is distorted because you're controlling it with your attempts, but you're not able to see what you're doing because the color is switched off.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | mp20748 wrote: | The center convergence is working, but the red is controlling the blue and vice/versa.
The problem is on the control board... sometimes it'll go away after full initialization. If not - replace the CLM! |
You might be right Mike, Is there a way to have all grids lit up while doing convergence to see that happen? Because from my explanation it does seam that is what's going on.
But what about the deflected center grid zone? I never seen that.
Athanasios |
swap the red and blue on the HDM - that would allow you to see/confirm that you're actually controlling the grids.
The center zone is distorted because you're controlling it with your attempts, but you're not able to see what you're doing because the color is switched off. |
I was thinking about this some more, It makes sense what your saying but then I was able to see the rest of the zones converged correctly. So is it possible only that Center Zone is flipping which color its changing and then the rest of the zone would work correctly?
EDIT Mike do you mean the CVA connectors not the HDM?
I have another CLM I could give him and put the Ultra DPB on that one for him. That is the easiest solution, but you know me, I need to know why this happened and try to fix it.
Thanks for the input guys, I'll get him a different CLM and then explore some more . It might be a bad component, or if software related, where there I cant fix it.
I'll try different chips swaps from the good board too, Scott any tips on which socketed Chips to try first?
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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are you sure you don't just have the R and B H yoke connectors interchanged?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | are you sure you don't just have the R and B H yoke connectors interchanged? |
I'm pretty sure I have them correct, but then again that might explain why on my PJ at home i can see the grid move!! Doh!!!!
So let me see if I understand, the center zone convergence is not controlled by the CVA but by the HDM and the rest of the zones are controlled by the CVA. This is why I was able to converge all zones, but the red and blue center did not
move cause I might have the HDM cables connected tot he wrong coil. Correct?
Well that might solve the Grids moving, Now i have to find out why the Point convergence is active in the center to skew the grid one direction on the red and the other direction on the blue.
Thanks Curt
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yup, that's right. trust me, as recently as last year I accidentally swapped the yoke connectors on the HDM, and it took me 2 hours to figure out why the %^%^$ center H shift didn't work?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Yup, that's right. trust me, as recently as last year I accidentally swapped the yoke connectors on the HDM, and it took me 2 hours to figure out why the %^%^$ center H shift didn't work? |
LOL, Ok I feel better now and not as big as an idiot  . Would this cause the strange Anomaly convergence in the center zone as well? Although Greg said it was there before but not in the center and only on the blue.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
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Location: Langley, BC
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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No, I think that's a CLM issue. Disconnect the convergence output to test, and then disconnect the convergence ribbon cable to make sure it's a signal issue coming from the CLM, as I bet the convergence output is OK.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ok did the tests and Curt is right. the bend went away. So its a bad CLM. I think i'll try the op amps on the convergence section for the Red and Blue first as I have those in my inventory.
I swapped out PLD U19 no luck. I am also wondering if its the ram chips U46(red) and U75 (blue). His Chassis has a slight bend
right where the CLM goes in on the bottom. He said he would pull out and push in the clm a few times to reseat it. I wonder if he pushed down on it and had the underside of the PCB touch the frame and it could have shorted something or could have caused a
cracked solder joint.
Off to work so this will have to wait for another day where I think i'll reflow some solder along the red channel components first.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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At this point it's either buggy firmware, a bad DAC chip, or bad op-amps in the associated channel. In any event it's time to look for a replacement CLM or attempt to repair it.
Yes, it is one of those "gotchas", that center convergence is handled by the deflection circuits, not the convergence circuits. It's more efficient that way. Asking the convergence amps to muscle around the whole raster would really be asking a lot of them. The HDM
is beefy enough to handle the job quite easily, though.
CJ
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | At this point it's either buggy firmware, a bad DAC chip, or bad op-amps in the associated channel. In any event it's time to look for a replacement CLM or attempt to repair it.
Yes, it is one of those "gotchas", that center convergence is handled by the deflection circuits, not the convergence circuits. It's more efficient that way. Asking the convergence amps to muscle around the whole raster would really be asking a lot of them. The HDM
is beefy enough to handle the job quite easily, though.
CJ |
I have a replacement to use at his house if it works, it had the railroad lights but I was not thinking and forgot to swap the DPB to it. It probably works , it has older firmware but i'll just swap out all the chips. I also have a spare at home with a bad DPB.
I wish the schematics labeled the data lines more precisely than with letters and numbers so I could figure out what zone or
whatever they are for. Short of changing each DAC you have no way of knowing. So thats why i'll try an op amp first. then work my way back.
Not sure if I'll even get to it soon, I still want to try and figure it out though someday.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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