CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

marcogag · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 8

Is there a device that speeds up the switching capabilities of today's A/V receivers.
I'm experiencing 5-7 seconds of no video while the audio is instant.
any ideas?
I

WanMan · Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270

Its probably not the actual switching that you are perceiving as the delay, but the handshaking.

VideoGrabber · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan

As WanMan pointed out, it's the handshaking, not the actual switching, which is likely instantaneous. When we went from analog (totally instant channel shifts), to digital (takes a second or so each time, while enough digital data gets buffered), we were primed to start expecting delays. When they then inserted HDMI security into the chain, these delays increased. Sometimes substantially. They're both inconvenient and annoying, and can be a real PITA. But hey, get used to it. It's a price YOU have to pay, to "ensure" their "high-quality content" is protected from nefarious "pirates".

You'll likely find that the switching times will vary, based on the source device you're connecting to. This indicates that it's not your A/V Receiver per se, but the device that has a slow handshake response. When flipping between sources on my HDTV set, the delays can be 0 (for analog sources), a second or 3 (for 'quick' handshake devices), or 7-8 seconds (for pig-slow digital handshakes, like on my Charter cable-box).

If you find the HDMI delays annoying enough, you could switch to HD component video inputs, if your sources still output them. But enjoy that option now, because it will be going away soon enough. (We're in what they euphemistically refer to as the "analog sunset", and future devices will be contractually prohibited from including ANY form of analog output [by licensing restrictions].)

marcogag · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 8

Thanks..
Samsung developed the "instaport" system a few years back to allow quicker switching when plugging directly to the TV.
Has any A/V manufacturer's done this on A/V receivers?

ecrabb · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:18 pm Post subject:

Again... The 5-7 second delays aren't necessarily inherently the problem of HDMI or HDCP, but the handshake implementation in one or more of the devices in your signal chain.

For instance, in my system, switching between the PS3, HD DVD, or DirecTV receiver takes no more than a second or two at most. All three sources feed my Integra prepro, which output the original HD Fury as my "display".

I would guess there is one device in your signal chain that's particularly offensive - and it's probably the AVR if the problem occurs across sources.

What does your signal chain look like, and have you tried that signal chain or the sources with a different display device?

SC

marcogag · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 8

I'm using a new Samsung 3D bluray player, a Pace HD cable box and a Direct Tv HD PVR with newer Monster 1.4 compliant hdmi cables fe into a new Onkyo TX-SR608 "3D" receiver.
No I haven't tried the sources on a different display.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:40 pm Post subject:

Hmm.... I'd expect the new Onkyo to be pretty fast...

Is the delay the same whether you're switching back and forth between the BD player and DirecTV DVR as when you switch between the cable box and the the BD player?

SC

marcogag · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 8

Yes pretty much...give or take one second.
At times you will see the video flicker within that 5-7 seconds as it wants turn on but hesitates flashing on and off then eventually turns on.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject:

What's your display?

SC

marcogag · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 8

Samsung UNC8000 LED 3D 55"

ecrabb · Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject:

OK, so all new stuff... Geez, that sucks. Have you posted over at AVS? Some people over there probably have that display, and there are surely quite a few with the new Onkyo... There are probably even threads for both. Maybe somebody can say one way or the other that can narrow down to whether it's the display or the Onkyo that's causing the problem.

Failing forum help, I think I'd try connecting two of your sources directly to the TV and switching inputs to see if you have much of a delay there...

Oh, and the display and the AVR both have lots of scaling and processing capabilities... Have you checked to see whether any of those controls are on/off on both and tried the opposite? Maybe this isn't even just handshake... Could be something in the AVR that the display doesn't like. What about forcing the Onkyo to 1080p to that HDMI output to see if that changes anything?

Oh, how about firmware? Any new firmware for either piece?

As much as HDMI can suck, HDMI handshake on brand new gear shouldn't be taking 7 seconds, so I think something has to be whacky.

SC

marcogag · Joined: 28 May 2009 Posts: 8

Thanks for your time... when you say over at AVS...where do you mean ?

ecrabb · Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:00 am Post subject:

Oh, sorry!

AVS Forum...

Displays:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=166

AVRs
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=90

Didn't check for the AVR, but it looks like a thread on your display series. Probably more info than you ever wanted to know.

SC

WardMD · Joined: 03 Jan 2011 Posts: 2

The DELAY (lag time) in switching HDMI ports (without "InstaPort") has to do with the HDCP Authorization (the handshake between HDMI/HDCP compliant devices).

InstaPort performs that handshake ONCE (when the device connects to the HDMI port, so the switch between these ports is "instantaneous").

It has NOTHING to do with "buffering" of data.

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:45 am Post subject:

Welcome to the forum, WardMD... But, I must ask... Why did you find it necessary to register, only to drag this thread up from seven months ago, when the poster's questions were already reasonably well-answered? You wouldn't happen to work for Silicon Image, would you? Other than the apparent advertisement for InstaPort, what did you add?

Also, regarding your last sentence... Nobody in this thread was suggesting that the original poster's issue had anything to do with "buffering of data". VideoGrabber is the only one who used the word and he wasn't using it explain the HDCP handshake delay.

SC

WardMD · Joined: 03 Jan 2011 Posts: 2

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:42 pm Post subject:

Regarding VideoGrabber's post... I disagree. He was referring to the delay in changing channels on a digital off-the-air tuner versus the instantaneous tuning of good old analog tuners. In that context, any delay has nothing whatsoever to do with HDCP or any other DRM. There are several reasons for the delay, but one of this is that the receiver must buffer enough of the MPEG stream to acquire an I-frame to begin decoding it for display. That can take just over half a second by itself. So, in the context of VideoGrabber's post, what I wrote was accurate enough, if somewhat unrelated to the actual subject at hand.

Yes, you're correct that marcogag stated incorrectly that Samsung "developed Instaport". Obviously, they just integrated SI's tech... I believe Samsung was the first to integrate it though, and I could see how they could market it as though it was something unique to Samsung displays - at least at first - and how somebody might misunderstand.

Regarding my earlier response... We get a lot of spammers posting in very old threads (though I'm not really sure why). They make several posts so as not attract suspicion, then add a signature link at a later time. I'm only one of several moderators, and I delete several of that kind of post (and it's author/user) every week. Your post had a similar feel, so I was suspicious.

So. sorry - No offense was intended. Of course, neither the thread or forum are closed and anyone is welcome to bump any thread if it adds to the discussion. My apologies, and as I stated before - welcome to the forum.

Cheers,
SC