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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: XG Tubes |
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I'm not retarded.  Just thought I'd get that out right off the hop. OK here it goes. Bought a new green tube for my XG1350. Model P16LJE07HKA from VDC. While I've got the PJ apart I thought I'd do a few things such as clean, fan mod, bleed tubes and paint case. It's on the bench so now is as good of a time as any. Well I was getting the front covert ready for painting and decided to read the labels inside and low and behold they say to use P16LJE08 series tubes. WTF! I have trust issues so I went and had a look at my actual tubes and they are in fact P16LJE08's. I am aware of the resistor mod for going from 07's to 08's, but now what do I do. Guess I should have sent it to you Curt. Now I've got an 07 green and 08 blue and red. Heeeelp! 
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Update
I've referenced back to an older post of mine when I bought a dud tube (08) and the board images in the manual I have. First off the manual shows the board as #72140702 G while my actual board is #72140701 G. My PJ is circa 1996. Looking over the differences between the manual image and the actual board. The Manual appears to have a board trace between the two bottom G1 Pins. Mine are an open circuit. Looking on the solder connection side of the board the left G1 pin has no connection to anything. While the right G1 pin is connected directly to the central trace that goes to the upper G1 pin. The manual shows this connection made with two SM chip resistors in parallel (haven't been able to find the value of these in the manual). While much is the same, there are some distinct differences in these two boards. Are there differences in the other boards in the PJ as well or could I just buy the "updated" neckboard and toss it in?
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Ive read through that thread. I've even recently bought a set of the 07's from Terry. So it sounds like all 3 tube versions are interchangeable? I just don't want to cook a new tube (I have a wife to answer to )
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:20 am Post subject: |
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BTW Mark, as I imagine you will eventually get around to reading this thread, I will post images of my neck boards for you as soon as I can find my camera. Cheers.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I've never seen one of these XGs. Doug mentioned them, but this is the first one that has appeared on the forum.
I think you have to do a neckboard mod like a G70.
We need pics of the back of the neckboards.
And on the top side of the neckboard, is the resistor from the KH tube pins present? It's a big brown bugger, goes to ground from the KH pads.
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | I've never seen one of these XGs. Doug mentioned them, but this is the first one that has appeared on the forum.
I think you have to do a neckboard mod like a G70.
We need pics of the back of the neckboards.
And on the top side of the neckboard, is the resistor from the KH tube pins present? It's a big brown bugger, goes to ground from the KH pads. |
The resistor doesn't appear to be present Mark. Just open space on the board there.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have 4 XGs (1350, 1100, 1101, 1352) and the tubes in use are all over the map from 06, 07, 08 and appear to be completely interchangable. Some have a mix within 1 projector. I've swapped them (due to wear) and have not done any resistor changes or any significant setup menu adjustments (beyond basic calibration). The only resistor change I'm aware of is with the SONY G70.
I wouldn't hesitate to use an 07 in place of an 08 in any XG model.
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Jerry
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| jarseneau wrote: | I have 4 XGs (1350, 1100, 1101, 1352) and the tubes in use are all over the map from 06, 07, 08 and appear to be completely interchangable. Some have a mix within 1 projector. I've swapped them (due to wear) and have not done any resistor changes or any significant setup menu adjustments (beyond basic calibration). The only resistor change I'm aware of is with the SONY G70.
I wouldn't hesitate to use an 07 in place of an 08 in any XG model. |
Could you supply a list of the neck board numbers and their corresponding original tube as well as tubes #'s swapped to which neck board #?
Have you swapped any of your 08's into a machine that was running 07's or 06's?
What does the labels on your front covers state for tube replacements?
Are they all factory installed tubes?
The ones that have a mix, are the neckboards the same #'s?
My board ends in 701 and the manual shows a 702 which suggests to me a revision for some reason. I just don't want to take a chance of ruining a brand new $700 tube (yeah, I know, I'm not much of a gambler). I've read that the 06's & 07's are the same tube although I really don't know. I'm sure this community knows way more about these than I could ever hope to know so I assume this is true.
Mark, I can try to get some more images of the component side of the board by trying to do just area shots and piece them together. The board has quite a bit of stuff that sticks out on this side making it quite difficult to get a good shot of the traces, plus the fact that the socket appears to cover some as well. Say the word and I'll try to provide. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute something instead of only asking for information.
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I can check after work about the neckboard vs. tube. Since I bought all my pj's used, I couldn't say which were factory other than the few that are VDC I know would NOT be factory. Probably all the REDs are factory since they barely wear. I can say that all the neckboards in my pj's have not been changed since I got them.
If you check the 'Projector Specification' charts in the main Curt Palme homepage, it lists compatible tubes for all XG's as P16LJE06, 07, 08 so I suspect this has been verified in the past. But I'll produce a chart of results from my working 'stable' of pjs  .
Does your new tube have the XG mounting hardware attached or do you need to swap that yet. Just curious since I had such an adventure removing mine that I ended up sending the dud to VDC and had them swap. If I were to try it again I would probably add some heat and use a better jig to hold the tube for getting the hardware from the old tube loose.
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Jerry
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Here are pictures of the later XG neckboard, for an 06/07 tube (these tubes really are identical).
You can see the duplicated G1 pad is transformed to a KH pad. In the front view you can just see the KH resistor above the CRT socket.
If it was my projector I would mod it.
The mod is similar to a G70, see here: http://www.curtpalme.com/Sony_G70_Tube_Swap10.shtm
Except you already have a G1 in the correct position.
What you need to do is cut the G1 track, jump over the new KH pad to that resistor, then solder one or two resistors to Ground from the KH locations. Up on the upper left is ground - where the grey ground connector attaches on the other side.
The value of the resistors escapes me. From memory it was 3M3, but Dan used different values in the G70 mod. I don't think it is critical, it just needs to be bigger than 1M.
Oh, and Jerry, to do the housing swap, you have to soak the silicone in turps.
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Is this what you are referring to Mark?
Red = Cut Trace
Black = Jumper
Blue = 4M7 Ohm Resistor
Gray = Gnd
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s254/Ironman1965/CRT/P4150027c.jpg
This would convert the 2 bottom G1 pads to KH?
Please bear with me as I'm learning here.
Last edited by Ironman1965 on Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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NO!!!! G1 is not ground, and now your G1 is not connected to the circuitry at the bottom side.
Hang on...
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think this would work.
But you really need to see the back of a standard XG neckboard from a "0" series projector.
Maybe they just ran the 07 in the same neckboard as yours. I just don't know, I don't have an XG from this generation, and I doubt there are any with 08 tubes from the factory in Oz.
Jerry can help you.
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Jerry I could really use your help.
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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Ironman1965
Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, I'm no technician but I can see no reason why your mod shouldn't work. The factory board has a 3M9 1/2 watt resistor going to ground, while the G70 mod calls for a 4M7 1/2 watt resistor. Should I stick with the factory numbers or go with the G70 numbers? I'm assuming factory would be my best bet?
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I agree, the schematic is for your board.
We've always known the schematic didn't match the stock neckboard, but now I have seen a neckboard that it does match.
I would do the mod as I drew it, except perhaps to a better ground location. Having the board images helps.
I would NOT just hook up an 06/07 tube and hope for the best.
It will be interesting to see what Jerry comes up with - whether his XGs have different neckboards. I suspect you can "get away" with putting an 08 in the 07 neckboard, but not the reverse (hence the sticker).
Mark
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jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Ironman1965 wrote: | | Jerry I could really use your help. |
I haven't abandoned you Ironman. My excuse is that I have my foot in a cast and it's hard for me to get to the projectors and open them up to check the boards but I did it today.
My 1350 has all '08 tubes with '701 neckboards. The 1100 has '702 neckboards and the green tube is an '07 and probably not original but works fine. I wouldn't be suprised if the BIAS setup looked a bit different. The 1101 has '721 neckboards and has '06 & '07 tubes.
_________________
Jerry
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