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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:44 pm Post subject: The new 3D standard and CRTs. |
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I haven't researched it at all, haven't even looked at the specs, but can they do it? Got my first email this morning asking, and I drew a blank.
I'm guessing P43 fast phosphor greens are needed?
Thanks!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Umm... Curt, where have you been while the 2-3 threads on the subject went on and on? 
Here's the deal: Nobody knows exactly how it's going to work yet. The BDA announced that they had finalized the standards for 3D, but the standards haven't been released. We also don't know exactly how the players will implement the standard, and what the output will look like. So, at this point, there's no way to say if it will work, how well it's going to work, or how expensive it's going to be to do it.
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, completely missed them. I searched '3D' here and got nothing.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Guys!
P43 is optimal for stereoscopic but will have 20% less light output. Standard green will lag, so left eye info will be seen by the right eye and vice verse.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Fortunately, I've got a green P43 phosphor LUG in excellent shape. I was going to sell it but now I think I'm going to keep it.
My understanding is that the release spec is 1080px24x2. Very workable, bandwidth-wise, but each field is probably going to flicker.
So how high a refresh rate can a healthy 9500 take before the picture starts to soften, at 1080p? 60 seems to be no problem on mine.
CJ
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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There are no fields to flicker, CJ... Unless you use a processor and run an interlaced resolution.
Yes, the source (any Hollywood films, anyway) will be encoded @ 1080p24 x 2... But, we don't know yet if that's what the players will output... If they do, then we'll have to down-scale as 1080p/96 is certainly going to roll-off a little at that res/refresh.
In the HDMI 1.4 thread, Tim (videograbber) made the excellent point that brightness was going to be a serious issue, too. That was something that really struck me even at the theater watching the DLP projector - which is undoubtedly brighter than my screen. So, we'll have to choose between some ghosting with the brighter (but still dim) image on a non-P43 phosphor machine, or a more discrete (less ghosting) image, but even dimmer on the P43 machine.
We really should take this back over to one of the other threads... We'll have 4 threads going on 3D if we continue here.
SC
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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There will be fields, in a manner of speaking, because for this to work on a CRT the left and right channels will have to be alternated and the viewer will watch shuttle glasses. So each eye will see HALF the total frame rate. Each frame will be a full 1080p frame, but you'll still be seeing half the frame rate per eye.
How will it feel to have one eye seeing a flicker at 24 FPS and the other eye seeing it, too, but out of phase?
I think some people will get headaches rather rapidly.
CJ
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Is it OK if I start another thread titled double D?
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | Is it OK if I start another thread titled double D? |
Not if I have to post this in the thread:
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | | There will be fields, in a manner of speaking, because for this to work on a CRT the left and right channels will have to be alternated and the viewer will watch shuttle glasses. So each eye will see HALF the total frame rate. Each frame will be a full 1080p frame, but you'll still be seeing half the frame rate per eye. |
I don't know why you're calling it "fields" - I think that just confuses the issue. There is no interlacing, so no fields. Yes, because of the active LCD shutter glasses, each eye will only be seeing the appropriate view, but that's just alternating frames, not any sort of interlacing. And yes, each eye will be seeing half the total refresh rate...
| cmjohnson wrote: | How will it feel to have one eye seeing a flicker at 24 FPS and the other eye seeing it, too, but out of phase?
I think some people will get headaches rather rapidly. |
That would look like total ass, and yes - you'll definitely get a headache. I would put that in the "unwatchable" category. This is why I say it will have to be frame-doubled from 24fps per eye to at least 48fps per eye... So, whatever progressive resolution you want to scale to, and a 96hz refresh.
When I used to help set up immersive VR setups with the CrystalEyes active stereo setups with Barco 909's and Ehome/Christie 9500LC Ultras, we used to do 1600x1200 @ 60hz... That gave a nice sharp picture and 30hz refresh per eye - flicker that wasn't too bad. Nobody put those glasses on and watched a 2-hour movie, though.
I can also tell you the shutter glasses cut the light output WAY down. I didn't even think about it until Tim brought it up in the other thread, but I'm not sure we're going to be happy with our CRTs watching 3D movies. I think the picture is just going to be too dim and lifeless to watch a 2-hour movie. I noticed several times how much better Avatar looked WITHOUT the glasses on, and that was on the commercial cinema DLP... Which is a damn bit brighter than my projector... And that a passive setup, which passes more of the system light output than the active setup.
My excitement for 3D is waning the more I think about it. Fun for games and trailers and demos, but I don't think anybody is going to want to watch movies unless they're running a high-gain screen.
SC
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: |
My excitement for 3D is waning the more I think about it. Fun for games and trailers and demos, but I don't think anybody is going to want to watch movies unless they're running a high-gain screen.
SC |
Come to the other side SC....there is no 3D over here! 
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