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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: Lexicon likes Fool's Money |
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So, I was doing a little reading over on the BD forums and this article that referenced an Audioholics review.
Apparently, Lexicon took a stock Oppo BDP-83 player and literally dropped it into a Lexicon skin and called it worth $3000 more. I wonder how many folks were taken for this kind of ride? Here is an image of the bottom of the Lexicon, which cut holes in the aluminum skin so that the Oppo chassis could breath.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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And funny, I found the article on avsforum.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: Lexicon/Oppo |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | And funny, I found the article on avsforum. |
I read the same article. I wonder how the so called supporters of "high end" high priced products feel now. I have never seen an article like this that so severely "took to task" the people involved, such as Lexicon for saying things about the player that just weren't true and THX for providing "official" endorsement to a product that "theoretically" didn't meet THX standards and STILL charge for the endorsement so they could put their logo on the player, hence, increasing the final price even more! I greatly admire "Audioholics" for, finally, commenting on something that, no doubt, has existed in the business for years. Put a different front plate on a player with the THX logo and the company figures they can charge seven times the price!
What's that old saying? "There is a sucker born every minute". Obviously, there is STILL a lot of them in the consumer electronics business.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well that's an expensive case now, isn't it!
Sucker born every minute I guess... 
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Vidkron anyone?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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bbfarmht
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 1273
Location: Where the Mississippi runs east to west!!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Never trust someone who refers to technology as a "rig". A rig is crap tied together with a rope, which gives them something to fall back on when hyperbole is exposed." |
That's going in my classic file!!
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
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Rusty
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Too funny  Lexi-Con.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Awesum, even after they were exposed there's a guy on there saying Lexicon is a better built player. No it's just a different box. Man audiofools can be so funny.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Seems like that website has blown what little credibility they might have had. Not only did they get busted on this, but they then deleted comments that blew the truth!?!
Hey Rusty, I love the Lexi-Con marketing concept. Maybe Oppo should register it, or something close to it.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm actually really surprised that Lexicon would do a simple Runco-style cosmetic re-wrap on the Oppo player. They've never been an "audiofool" type company (that I'm aware of) and always seemed to build some really good (albeit pricey) gear.
I'm NOT surprised at the THX stupidity. I think the THX reviews process has always had more to do with licensing funds than with actual performance. The ignorance of the writers that should THX should have given Oppo certification is astounding... Duh, you morons... Oppo didn't submit their player to THX for certification along with the required licensing fee, or it obviously WOULD have been THX certified.
The publication's story and comment moderating isn't the least bit surprising to me, either.
SC
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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This is just a reinforcement of what has been now the scam of much of "high-end" overpriced equipment that many in the CE press, in their ignorance, drool over and have been doing so for years. I, at least, commend audioholics for exposing this for what it is considering the fact that these publications have their advertisers and many, including this clown who wrote the review, doesn't want to "bite the hand" that feeds them and will continue to drink the "kool-aid" of this nonsense. This will also happen with the retailer that sells the stuff.
Another prime example of this was in a recent review in "Home Theater" of a line of B&W speakers in which it was divulged that ALL but their "top-of-the-line" 800 series were now being manufactured in China. Nowhere on their website, is their mention of this other than the fact this is their so-called "budget" line of speakers. Other than keeping prices artificially high, why is it the Chinese are good enough to build all their lines of speakers but not good enough to build their 800 series and are their prices reflected in the differing locations of manufacture? Probably not.
As far as the BD30 is concerned, the sad fact is, never having read this information, some poor "sucker" has already or is going to walk in to a "high-end" A/V store and plunk down $3500 just for the Lexicon nameplate and a "very questionable" THX endorsement.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Ron, are you saying the B&W speakers below the budget line are made in China and reporting different on the product itself?
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Ron, are you saying the B&W speakers below the budget line are made in China and reporting different on the product itself? |
Forgive me but I am not exactly sure what you are asking when you said "reporting different on the product itself"(I don't think so?), however, that being said, my beef has always been with companies like this(and there are several) who have, up until recently consistently "looked down their noses" at the concept of engineering of products done domestically yet, manufactured overseas which, automatically in their mind related to "inferior" performance, build quality, quality of parts, etc. etc. which justified grossly inflated prices well beyond the excuse of increased domestic costs. You still see this mentality in a few so-called "esoteric" audiophile publications today. The particular Home Theater 5 piece set-up in question that was reviewed and Made in China, still listed at over $7200! Despite it being B & W, this is hardly what I would call a "budget" system.
The Lexicon/Oppo fiasco, to me anyway, just reiterates what I thought was happening for years which has, in turn, given rise to many Internet only companies(like this one) and others like Oppo, Aperion, Outlaw, Emotiva, Axiom and the list goes on, many of whom I have personally heard and who at least admit that part and/or all of their product is made in the Far East but, of course, sells for a fraction of the price AND offers very comparable performance to much more expensive lines of product normally sold through dealers.
As someone who has a sideline of putting together A/V systems for people, because of all this nonsense, I now do my best to avoid most retailers, especially of "high-end" audio since the torture of having to deal with many of these people AND their attitude is akin to pulling my fingernails out with a pair of pliers!
(Obviously, as you can see, I am a "little" passionate about this topic)
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Ron, most products I buy have a tag on them saying Made in %$#&@. I am asking if the B&W speakers you were referring to were being made in China but their Made in Tag said somewhere else.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Ron, most products I buy have a tag on them saying Made in %$#&@. I am asking if the B&W speakers you were referring to were being made in China but their Made in Tag said somewhere else. |
Does it say "Made In China" on the boxes of the particular line of speakers reviewed in HT?
Since the speakers in question are a relatively new line, I have not seen them nor do I know if that label is on the cabinets themselves, however, if it wasn't for HT and the reviewer( a la audioholics), and since it doesn't say anything about it on the B&W website, I suppose unless we can "eyeball" the small print on the back of their cabinets, we really have know way of knowing.
Granted, unlike Lexicon who actually "repackaged" another company's product(and got caught), of course B & W didn't do that, however, in this case and several other manufacturers, because of their name, keep the prices artificially high, when many other companies out there(who actually admit their stuff is made overseas) offer pretty comparable price/performance packages at a fraction of the price(and still make money).
As more and more of this production, regardless of "make" is moved to the Far East, I believe we and the CE press who is obviously now taking a long hard look at this, can no longer actually do reviews saying "it is an excellent performer for the money". What they should be doing now is comparing product to product strictly as a performer, not price range but I am afraid the press is still afraid to do that because of retribution from their advertisers.
I would love to see a "head to head" comparison between the $899 Oppo BDP83 "SE" and the $4500 Denon Blu-Ray players.
That, I am afraid, will never happen for fear of the results.
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Ron W wrote: |
Does it say "Made In China" on the boxes of the particular line of speakers reviewed in HT?
Since the speakers in question are a relatively new line, I have not seen them nor do I know if that label is on the cabinets themselves, however, if it wasn't for HT and the reviewer( a la audioholics), and since it doesn't say anything about it on the B&W website, I suppose unless we can "eyeball" the small print on the back of their cabinets, we really have know way of knowing.
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B&W Speakers are produced in Worthing, sussex England, they have a second production facility in Cleckheaton, W. Yorkshire. Their Cabinet production is done in Aegerbaek, Denmark.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Keep in mind that a manufacturer is doing nothing wrong by using components cranked out overseas, if either 'final' or 'substantial' assembly is done in the US or Canada. I'm not familiar with all the particulars of the laws, but I know that's what Canada Customs looks for, not where the parts are made but where the final assembly is done.
Rebadging is rampant in the flat screen market, go google plasma PC boards, and see how many sets an LG or Samsung board fit.
As I posted on avs, I could care less if someone rebadges something else and surcharges for it, but when they claim that their unit is better than the base unit when no mods were done, that's where I have a problem with the marketing of it.
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Ron W
Joined: 07 Aug 2009
Posts: 860
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | | Ron W wrote: |
Does it say "Made In China" on the boxes of the particular line of speakers reviewed in HT?
Since the speakers in question are a relatively new line, I have not seen them nor do I know if that label is on the cabinets themselves, however, if it wasn't for HT and the reviewer( a la audioholics), and since it doesn't say anything about it on the B&W website, I suppose unless we can "eyeball" the small print on the back of their cabinets, we really have know way of knowing.
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B&W Speakers are produced in Worthing, sussex England, they have a second production facility in Cleckheaton, W. Yorkshire. Their Cabinet production is done in Aegerbaek, Denmark. |
Not to belabor a point, but one might want to E-Mail B&W about this issue of the "current" manufacturing location of their speaker lines.
I believe, if they respond as I have seen other E-Mail responses from the company HQ, it will confirm pretty much what the reviewer in HT stated.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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| Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys, long time lurker, been a member of AVS for a while, I figured I'd finally give things a try here. Especially since I have something to contribute to this thread 
The beauty of a free market economy is that people are given choices and can spend (or not spend) their money however they please. In this case Lexicon has wrapped an Oppo in a pretty shell, and marked up the price substantially. Not the first time this has happened, not the last. nor do I take issue with that act in and of itself. I take issue with 1) Lexicon claims their machine has improvements over the Oppo, yet won't disclose what those are (especially when all data and measurements points to the contrary), and 2) that HTR is sticking by an assessment that the Lexicon is improved over and performs superior to the Oppo, yet won't explain how this could be.
Jerry has shown himself to be a total snake, pretending to publish helpful "reviews" that are no more than paid independent advertisements. And then when his publication is caught doing something blatantly dishonest - and they are being dishonest, otherwise they wouldn't be avoiding the whole issue like the plague - he won't even man up and admit even the possibility that his reviewer made an error in judgement.
I just posted a comment on the review that will probably get me banned from posting on HTR again (and possibly my posts deleted), but I've tried and tried and Jerry won't budge, so I really don't care. That guy represents the worst kind of dishonest douchebaggery in the electronics industry, and he should be ashamed at his lack of integrity.
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Curt Palme wrote: | | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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