CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[No_4]

Over 8 years ago I blew the budget on an ex-demo Sony VPH-D50QM when I set up my home theatre. I tried an HTPC at the time but that never really worked out so we just lived with the DVD player and vcr connected via composite or S-video to the projector, using its internal line doubler (tried the DVD via component/inputA, but the doubler didn't work for that so gave up on that). The result was such an improvement on the old 29" tv, at such cost, that permission for any further spending on scalers etc wasn't forthcoming. We did add an HDD recorder and replace the tv with a 32" 720P lcd a couple of years later, and use that whenever we can't be bothered firing up the whole system (quite often), all cobbled together with a Denon receiver and learning remote.

Fast forward to now and I've added a DVB-T box and network media tank, both with HDMI out. This has screwed up the connectivity side of things as the receiver only switched composite/S-vid, plus the fact that the old DVD player seems to have problems with the odd disk, means that the 'system' is no longer working like it should and I have approval for some changes. Yippee!

After trawling through this website I realise the projector is probably good for at least a few more years (10+ years was part of the original justification), but needs some additions to handle the digital signals. But having the second display in the TV seems to complicate things, unless I stick with 720P and mirror it to both displays. But either display could be upgraded independently of the other, so ideally I want independent outputs from the system.

So the task is to take the signal from a dvd player, HDTV transmission/recording, network media player or possibly a blu-ray player or HTPC, switch and scale the signal to either of the 2 displays, while switching the audio in sync (plain stereo to the tv, 5.1 only for the PJ).

Logical options are a new HDMI switching receiver and splitting off to the tv or an HDFury/Moome card for the projector, or a new processor scaler to handle the video and split off to the tv or HDFury/Moome card while passing audio through to the receiver, and tie it all up with the remote somehow so the other half can run it again.

Budget-wise I'd say I was in the pro-sumer class, or upper-midrange.

Having zero experience with scalers, I thought I'd ask the experts which was the more practical approach.

Availability can be a problem as New Zealand has a small population, but we buy a fair amount of stuff in from ebay and the like so its not an insurmountable problem. But it does reduce the attactions of cutting edge products like the Fury's/Moome cards that may need returning for service/upgrades.

I look forward to learning from the feet of the masters

[No_4]

Its funny how explaining stuff to others gets you thinking.

Given that I can't display 1080p, and don't see that changing soon, maybe a better option would be to work with component/RGB, and only use an HDFury when I get a BD player. The newer equipment also has component out, so a scaler that handles component/RGB may be the ticket. This may allow looking at 2nd hand pro-spec scalers from those who have upgraded, getting more bang for the buck so to speak.

If that was the case, what would I be best looking at?

[kschmit2]

I would get a used Lumagen HDP + HDFury or Moome input card to use HDCP signals.
Anything else would be overkill for the D50.
You would get awesome results that way.

[No_4]

Certainly a possibility, if I can find one. I downloaded the manual and looked through it - it has dual outputs, 1 RGBHV and 1 DVI-D, that can both be enabled, although HDCP content won't be passed through the analog side. I don't have any HDCP content as of yet so I'm not sure whether that is an immediate limitation. So I could hook up the PJ to analog and the TV to DVI-D. As far as I can tell the output resolution is the same across both, and you can only calibrate 1 display, but I could probably live with that. Looking at my tv specs, although it is a 1366x768 panel, it plays 1080i broadcasts quite happily, so it must downscale on the fly, so I could set the output to 1080i to suit the D50. And if HDCP became an issue I could always split the DVI output and use a Fury.

Has anyone had any experience with the scaling built into receivers? Recent ones upconvert and scale Composite/S-Vid to Component while the latest ones to HDMI. I see mention of Faroudja chips in them so they must to a reasonable job, but I presume dedicated scalers such as the Lumagen are superior, or at least more tunable?

Its just that my AVR has only 3 digital audio inputs which may be a handicap, so an upgrade there may be necessary anyway, although again I could go 2nd hand and stick with good component level switching/scaling.

Then again, upscaling our DVD collection is probably where the biggest benefit is, so maybe a new, good upscaling DVD or BD palyer + a good switcher would suffice. My problem seems to be too many solutions.

My priority would be stability of connectivity over quality, so I'm wondering which the most sensible direction is. Currently I typically connect to the D50 via the AVR and directly to the TV from the sources, either via second outputs or using RCA splitters. I can probably manage something similar but a lot of devices now seem to disable analog outputs once HDMI outputs are connected so I'm not sure how difficult that will be.

If I do opt for a 2nd hand scaler, what other brands other than Lumagen are worth considering, as availability may dictate choice to some extent. I see mention of DVDO, but their (lack of) support for their latest products is a worry. I've also come across the names Altona and Kramer but can't find much comment on them among the AV forums.

Decisions, decisions. Still, as problems go this is a nice one to have

[drice1234]

[No_4]

Thanks for chipping in. Which receiver are you using? And what adjustments does it allow you to make to each input?
That solution certainly has some elegance.

If I put a splitter after the HD Fury to run both the D50 and the tv I could probably make that work.

[No_4]

With regard to dual displays, does anyone know of a receiver capable of scaling to 1080i out on HDMI and 720p out on component simultaneously? Possibly an older high end unit one that was less fussy about HDCP on the component side? Just exploring connection possibilities for older displays.

[ecrabb]

You're not going to find any AVR with HDMI that doesn't have the components locked down for HDCP sources.

Actually, I think you're WAY over-thinking all this. In my mind, there are two really simple options. Everything is unnecessarily complex for your setup, IMHO.

If you want a new receiver anyway, get one. That handles most, if not all your issues, and simplifies the switching and signal chain in the process.

1) Less expensive. New AVR, HD Fury and HDMI splitter. Most decent AVR's have scaling and analog upconversion over HDMI. Select 720p output on the AVR when you're watching the LCD, and 1080i output on the AVR when you're watching the D50.

2) More expensive. New AVR with dual HDMI outputs, and and HD Fury. Higher end AVR's like those from Onkyo/Integra or Denon have multiple resolution-selectable HDMI outputs. Meaning, you can run 720p on the Sharp LCD and 1080i on the D50.

SC

[No_4]

Funnily enough that's exactly what I've been tending towards.

Stand alone VP's may have greater flexibility/chipset implementation, but at a cost, greater complexity and lack of availability in NZ, whereas Denon 890 or similar can be had locally with the ABT 2010 chipset, or move up from there.

Given that the TV is not HDCP compliant I'm more likely to go for the Fury + VGA splitter.

SO really just have to decide on whether to go Fury, Fury + Gamma or Moome ext, and which splitter.

Which is just as well as I'm just about reaching saturation point with my research and my head is starting to hurt