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Jim Shonk
Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 149 Location: Zanesville Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject: Your CRT projector is better than you think |
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While we all tinker and tweak and criticize our own set up’s constantly comparing them to systems 40 times our possible price range, I think we ( well me at least) forget how really awesome a decent crt setup can be,
I live in the boonies and rarely have company. Work horrible hours and most family and friends live over an hour away. Over the last year I have upgraded my setup and now have a wonderful extremely low hour G70 fed by a HD Leeza @ 1080p, to a DYI Wilson art screen, and the sound system I consider a budget system, Polk RTI 150 front, Polk LSiFX Bipolar Dipolar, rear and Polk LSIc center, with Acoustic Research powered sub. Sunfire theater grand pre pro and some adcom amps. All bought used and cheap.
Like most I under rate it and wish I had better,
Anyway to get back to the point, We had some guests over the last couple days and showed the system off finally. People were blown away to say the least, Several commenting on the sound, But all were just aw struck at the picture, a few felt motion sickness which is always a good measure for dept and clarity. And every single person seemed to make the same comment, it was the best picture they had ever seen,
After everyone left I sat down with the wife and watched 10,000 bc and finally felt comfortable with my gear.
So the next time your setting there playing with your set up, picking apart any imperfection you can find wishing you had bigger better best, stop just a sec and realize that, to the average consumer, us CRT heads have the MOJO sh*t.
_________________ I like to focus Nakid
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akajester
Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 934 Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I've had similar experiences, not that family is necessarily a good gauge of a good setup though. Although I agree with you. I feel really spoiled after hundreds of hours watching movies and playing games. I forget how great it really does look in the end. no how many things I THINK I can improve yet.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hell just go to Best Buy and see the crap they are peddling for thousands of dollars if you want to feel better. You can even go to a local AV shop and see their $20K system and still be grateful because your $5K still looks better.
I have spent very little money on the HT last couple of years after a big upgrade in 08. It's a good place to be when your simply satisfied with your current level of AV quality.
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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scir16v
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 113 Location: St. Louis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: |
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I went to see avatar in the theater for the 3d. The picture looked good, but I'm still happier with my misadjusted xg.
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Matrix
Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 123 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Jim, I always felt the same about my G70. People seem to be blown away when they see it but some ask if I am running 1080P. I am not, I am set up for 1080I. My question to you is how do you think the 1080P compares to the 1080I resolution on your G70? For comparisons sake I am projecting onto a 72"x96" Daylite Damat tension frame mount screen with motorized masking for different aspect ratios.
_________________ Dennis in Indy
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Its easy to forget how wonderful cathode ray tubes can reproduce black, contrast, and not remind you of the limitations of digital when watching your favorite dark scenes. I miss CRT during this period of not having one setup. Hopefully that will be corrected soon.
_________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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Jim Shonk
Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 149 Location: Zanesville Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Matrix wrote: | | Jim, I always felt the same about my G70. People seem to be blown away when they see it but some ask if I am running 1080P. I am not, I am set up for 1080I. My question to you is how do you think the 1080P compares to the 1080I resolution on your G70? For comparisons sake I am projecting onto a 72"x96" Daylite Damat tension frame mount screen with motorized masking for different aspect ratios. |
It looked a bit better to me, Yes you do loose a bit of sharpness, but over all I like having no artifacts or scan lines. Bare in mind this is super low hour unit showing just over 320 now. 1080p looks way better than 720p after several hours of fine tuning, From my 8200hd cable box I am sending 1080i then up scaling it to 1080p. For blue ray I am using a HTPC direct.
_________________ I like to focus Nakid
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Matrix
Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 123 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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With your low hour machine, 1080P is justified. I have 602 hours on 3 VDC tubes and 3000 hours on the chassis. 1080P on mine would be too soft and way too taxing on the electronics. Better stick with 1080I for me until a G90 happens my way.
_________________ Dennis in Indy
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1276 Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I got talked into to going to the movies the other night to see the new Sherlock movie. We sat dead center and all I can say is what a waste of time, it had to be the worst picture quality I've seen in many many years. I'm not sure what they use for a projector, but it was out of focus, the blacks sucked, the detail was horrid. It was a cineplex theatre. Never again, I'll wait for the BR release like I normally do.
_________________ Thanks
Walter
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Matrix wrote: | | Jim, I always felt the same about my G70. People seem to be blown away when they see it but some ask if I am running 1080P. I am not, I am set up for 1080I. My question to you is how do you think the 1080P compares to the 1080I resolution on your G70? |
I've got a really low-hour G70, and I run 1080p. I sit really close to my 8' wide WilsonArt (10'), so 1080i is unacceptable - the scan lines are just too visible. 1080p is perfect. Yes, it's a little softer than 1080i, and certainly softer than a 9" machine, but I'm not watching single-pixel-wide vertical-line on/off test patterns.
And, no - my projector isn't better than I think... I know it's good. Seriously, though... I've seen lots of other projectors, and while some are brighter, sharper, or have better ANSI contrast, none come anywhere near my machine on bang-for-buck. Even the Pioneer FPJ1 (JVC RS2) I saw last summer... It's a damn nice machine, and definitely sharper, but at $2500-3000, it certainly isn't worth 2.5-3x what I paid for my G70.
SC
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zaphod
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 2002 Location: Cloverdale
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| WTS wrote: | | I got talked into to going to the movies the other night to see the new Sherlock movie. We sat dead center and all I can say is what a waste of time, it had to be the worst picture quality I've seen in many many years. I'm not sure what they use for a projector, but it was out of focus, the blacks sucked, the detail was horrid. It was a cineplex theatre. Never again, I'll wait for the BR release like I normally do. |
i've got a sister who works for cineplex HQ in Toronto. they care about stuff like that, what was the theater? i'll pass it on.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3098 Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| WanMan wrote: | | Its easy to forget how wonderful cathode ray tubes can reproduce black, contrast, and not remind you of the limitations of digital when watching your favorite dark scenes. I miss CRT during this period of not having one setup. Hopefully that will be corrected soon. |
I agree with the OP and everyone else.
Recently I added bias lighting behind my screen, which stands off the flat black wall about 24", and the blacks popped. Weird to think that black can pop but it tricked my pea brain into thinking my CR went through the roof. It was like getting an entirely different pj.
It's a great hobby and even now, 5 years after getting into it, I still occassionally find it to be akin to threading a needle with a sausage. But I love it.
_________________ Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | | WanMan wrote: | | Its easy to forget how wonderful cathode ray tubes can reproduce black, contrast, and not remind you of the limitations of digital when watching your favorite dark scenes. I miss CRT during this period of not having one setup. Hopefully that will be corrected soon. |
I agree with the OP and everyone else.
Recently I added bias lighting behind my screen, which stands off the flat black wall about 24", and the blacks popped. Weird to think that black can pop but it tricked my pea brain into thinking my CR went through the roof. It was like getting an entirely different pj.
It's a great hobby and even now, 5 years after getting into it, I still occassionally find it to be akin to threading a needle with a sausage. But I love it. |
Ahh, spinners.
_________________ Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 1614 Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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if 1080i has scan lines, and 1080p is too soft...what about 720p? Seems brilliant to me...
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like 720p at all on my setup. I can see scan lines AND the spatial resolution is too low. Think about it... 720p only has 50% more vertical resolution than 480p. 1080p smokes 720p on my setup.
At some point, I'd really like to try a scaler at 1920x800@48 or 72... But I don't really want to mess with it right now.
SC
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | I don't like 720p at all on my setup. I can see scan lines AND the spatial resolution is too low. Think about it... 720p only has 50% more vertical resolution than 480p. 1080p smokes 720p on my setup.
At some point, I'd really like to try a scaler at 1920x800@48 or 72... But I don't really want to mess with it right now.
SC | well your right about all that but one thing I've noticed with 720P better is intra-scene CR with 720P due to the shorter rise/fall times for the electron beam on an 8 inch tube. AFA sharpness, I don't lose much if any at 1080P
I sometimes wish I had a scaler just to try down-scaling 1080P to 960.
Last edited by draganm on Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | one thing I've noticed with 720P better is on/off CR with 720P due to the shorter rise/fall times for the electron beam on an 8 inch tube. |
Hmm... I'm gonna have to let that one sink in... It's not making sense to me... I can't see how on/off would be any different between 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. How is on/off affected by anything temporal?
SC
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1276 Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Zap,
My mistake it was Empire not Cineplex, sorry.
_________________ Thanks
Walter
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | one thing I've noticed with 720P better is on/off CR with 720P due to the shorter rise/fall times for the electron beam on an 8 inch tube. |
Hmm... I'm gonna have to let that one sink in... It's not making sense to me... I can't see how on/off would be any different between 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. How is on/off affected by anything temporal?
SC |
Measuring the spatial and temporal resolution of visual displays. A pdf ......
http://stinet.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=A430109&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
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