CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[zaphod]

well, with that NOS XGLC in the offing, i'm thinking that if i'm ever going to do a pair of projectors now is the time. a pair of XGLC should do me for many many years of happy watching, by which time i'll move to an LCD of DLP or full wall holograph

now, do i blend or do i stack? stacking is supposed to be a bit softer and that worries me because i do like a sharp image. stacking also lower tube usage and makes things last longer. maybe long enough for me to be able to affort TWO holograph walls.

stacking keeps the sharp image, and maximizes raster usage which means longer tube life too. It means that i have a shorter throw distance, and it means that i will be at the very very shortest limit for an XG. my screen size is only 72" wide and that means an image of about 41" x 41" (58" diag) from each XG blended into a 72"X41" image on the screen.

but XGs only go down to 60" so i'm really pushing the limits.


the other dissadvantage with blending is that you need extra hw. and that has me wondering.

with the price of CRTs plummenting, why has the associated h/w not dropped in price also? and with new units coming out, why is there no used market for blending boxes? i've poked about and i just don't see great deals on used or otherwise TVone or AnalogWay units.

the NOS XGLC is a great deal at 2500, but tossing in 5000 for blending h/w makes it a harder choice.

perhaps i can learn to live with the softness of stacking after all.

[Nashou66]

Zaphod, Stacking is sharp if you have a two CRT's that can get geometry perfect and Nec's are known for that from what i read. Plus did you see Cliff's G90 stack!!! Amazing!1 it was sharper than my single marquee!!!!

Also blending is coming down if you go with the HTPC and andre's method(Blending with a PC) and i can get you into two Blend boxes for less that 5k
I figure around 3400 for two new C2-2450 Tv-One units. But id wait on those till i am sure they fix a bug with the blend zone.

But with blending you have to be able to get both PJ's to have the exact greyscale and colors in blend zone for it to be 100% seamless. So how well will
the Necs be able to get the edge of the blend side phosphors to match in output? I find this the most challenging part of Blending to date.

Athanasios

[ecrabb]

Zaphod, why would you want the hassle of a second projector on 72" wide screen? Phosphor longevity nor brightness should be an issue for you at that screen size. A single machine should last for nearly a decade running 12fL, unless you're racking up 8 hours a day or something.

Stacking... On that screen size, the only possible way you could do it is with an over/under or floor/ceiling. Do you have the room for that? It will DEFINITELY not be as sharp as a single projector. Yes, Cliff's stack is amazing (even the triple-stack was amazing), but A) Those are G90's, and B) Ken W - a serious pro - set them up.

Blending... 72x41? Seriously? What's the point?!?!!? That's TWO FEET smaller than my screen! My image is plenty bright - I can't even imagine how bright it would be with nearly 50% of the screen area... You must already be doing ~15-18 fL on non-full-white screens. How close are you sitting, and what's the screen material?

Sorry, Zaphod - I don't mean to rain on your parade. I love the idea of blends and stacks, and done right - on a large/scope screen - they're awesome. But, with your very small screen, I just don't see the point of going to the effort and expense.

SC

[MikeEby]

I have to agree a single XG should be really punchy on that size screen. Unless you have a lot of ambient light...Then a crt is not the right solutions, you can't take advantage of our wonderful black levels anyway.

Mike

[emdawgz1]

The beauty of a blend, (imho) is increased screen size. At 72 inches it hardly seems worth it.

Now if you are going 110.... then the blend is the thing. You guys should check out Williams setup. It's beautiful!!!

[drice1234]

At 72" why even bother with a projector? With the current prices of LCD's and RPTV's it seems it would be a lot less hassle. Back when a 40 inch TV was a big deal I could see how a 72" screen was a big upgrade. I would think you need to be at least at 96" to make a projector worth it.

[zaphod]

SC - don't worry about raining on my parade - i appreciate the input. really

the screen size is unfortunately unchangeable. my room is 13 feet (156 inches) wide, and the speakers are 20" wide. so, that brings the width down from 156 to 116 inches. I want at least 18" on outside wall of the speakers so that brings it down to 80" for the screen. add in a few inches on either side for the screen border and bingo - 72 inches. sigh.

i looked at putting the screen on the back wall, or at least closer to the back wall, and the speakers (which are also 5 freaking feet tall before the stands) get in the way of the screen. the center chair gets a great view, but anyone on the sides gets a fair chunk of screen lost to speaker blockage.

I sit about 8.5 feet from the screen. for me the ratio of about 1.2 screen widths is where I sit in a "real" theatre and that is about center of the house. If i stretch my arms out and splay my fingers, i like the screen width to span the width from one pinky finger to the other. bigger screen in the theater means that i sit further back. it give me that lost in the movie effect - like the opening of Star Wars (when there was only one of them) The city in Blade Runner. New Zealand in "An Affair To Remember".


So, what I'm hearing is that blending is right out at that small a screen. fair enough. good to know that now and good to find out the cheaper way, although Athanasios
those prices are better than what I'd feared. I've been following your blend issues with the latest TVone and from what I've read of your experiences I'm sure that they'll fix it.

I saw a stack a couple of years back and the effect was stunning. the depth of the image was incredible. really really spot on. When that second PJ was turned on, the improvement (to me) between that and non-stacked was as stunning as comparing non-stack to digital. well, maybe not that much of an in improvement but WOW.

I don't think that the screen was that much bigger than mine - maybe 80" wide or so - and yes, it was an over/under arrangement.

I don't think that I can do an Over Under and I don't want a big lump of mass on the floor between me and the speakers. I've tried that and it messed up the two channel listening setup.

i've attached a pic of the planned layout. the sectional is probably not going to be in the final layout.

[nuttall_chris]

Why not go with an acoustically transparent screen, then the speakers would not limit your screen width.

Chris.

[zaphod]

where were you when i bought my screen

seriously, i would if i could have afforded it, but i just couldn't afford an acoustically transparent tab tensioned electric screen that was in the budget at the time.

[Tim in Phoenix]

Hello

Blending gear is now less costly and more feature-laden then 12 or 15 years ago. The earlier Panoram boxes were four channels of just contrast modulation, msrp of $20K, and not often seen outside of a supercomputer site like EDS or General Motors. We demo'd the Folsom gear here at E-Tech twice; they promised a device called Display-Pro HD for $15K that never got manufactured because I was reluctant to buy thirty of those to justify the move to production. Vista offered a box at $60K that could do HDTV but showed no interest in a more affordable solution. Like it or not, Analogue Way was first to catch my attention with the DVX BlendZilla, originally $16K but now down around $12,500. So, you get what you pay for if you ask the right questions.


.

[ecrabb]

Zaphod,

Why the tab-tensioned roll-down? Is this not a dedicated space?

SC

[zaphod]

it's a shared space with 2 channel music. a hard match at best. it's also a shared space with my wife, and if i've learned only one thing this past year of marriage, it's "listen to your wife, she's probably right".

actually she's really good about the theater, but the 2 channel really isn't as forgiving to the theatre. take a look at the room layout i posted. the width of the speakers means that a fixed screen on the wall would look great to the center seat, but anyone off center would have part of the screen blocked by a speaker. and i really like those speakers so the compromise is the screen *just* in front of the speakers. such is life.

[Spanky Ham]

At this point, I would say why bother. I don't think I have read one install of a blend that didn't take like ten years to achieve. Matter of fact, how many people actually have a good working blend?

[zaphod]

point taken. if a bunch of enthusiasts are thinking "don't do it" then maybe I should focus on maximizing the best picture that i can get from my NEC XGLC and hold off on that sweet sweet NOS projector.

but, MAN i want it. i just can't find a good rationalization.

[Nashou66]

All you have to add to this forum is negativity, why not just stay on the porn sites and spank your ham lol

Nashou

[Spanky Ham]

[ecrabb]

Nash, I don't think Spanky was being negative as much as he was being a realist.

I'm a movie buff and A/V/HT enthusiast first and second, and a CRT enthusiast third. The CRT projector is in my theater because it got me the very best PQ at the price I could afford. Personally, I love the idea of a balls-out blend or stack. Going to Cliff's and seeing the triple-stack was pure Nirvana me, and really scratches the "equipment enthusiast" itch. But (and this is a big but), there's no way in hell I'd do a stack or blend in my theater. I don't want the heat, the noise, the aesthetic impact, the complexity, or the expense. But, that's all given my current situation.

If I was single, had more of "mad scientist" lab setup in my basement, then I might be playing around with a blend.

Zaphod, I get it. Yeah - trying to mix a 2-ch setup and an HT setup is tough. If you weren't so hardcore on your 2-ch listening, a fixed AT screen would let you keep your speakers, but put everything behind the screen, and probably gain a little floor space in the process. But, obviously, you don't want an AT screen in front of your 2-ch setup. It's a dilemma.... But, seriously, with your screen, and given that you're an audio guy, I don't see a stack or blend making sense in your setup.

Cheers,
SC

[zaphod]

yeah, i'm quickly coming to that conclusion too. man, i wish i wasn't a gear head sometimes. it hurts to pass on such a great projector.

[MikeEby]

Seymour AV has really nice AT retractable screens.

http://www.seymourav.com/screensretractable.asp

Their AT fixed screen DIY material looks very decent too.

http://www.seymourav.com/screensfixed.asp

Mike

[Spanky Ham]

Crabb said it best. I can't improve on his reply.


Mike is thinking exactly what I was thinking. Chris has a good screen fabric at an inexpensive price. I thought he said their new retractable screen was coming out next year, but maybe I was wrong.