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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:37 am Post subject: ampro 3600 cooling |
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before you warn me...I don't care if I blow the damn thing up. It's not worth much, but quiter projectors are worth a lot, to me!
The projector seems very well laid out with many heat sinks. The case is large and allows for very good air flow. I think it's a great candidate for some modifications.
I think this 3600 has 2 large fans blowing INTO the chassis from below the tubes...and 2 small fans blowing into the chassis right onto the neck boards....then one small fan also blowing into the power suppy.
If that's correct, I think I can slow the lower right fan (the larger one) and maybe knock a few db's off the upper smaller fans (or add larger ones), and perhaps add additional fans blowing the air through the rear components that are beside the power supply. Or, I could have a fan pulling air out the back and in turn lower the speeds of some of the other fans that are blowing into the chassis.
Any experience with one of these ampro's? Any thoughts?
Also, the ampro provides temps of the projector AND the power supply via the wired remote...cool!
My res would likely only every be 1080i...and if it makes any difference, I wouldn't go too wide on the tube face with my raster size.
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papalek
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1536
Location: Longs SC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ceiling mounted?
If it is ceiling mounted then it would be best to remove the big fans,then remove the screens and discard them. Next turn the fans over so they blow OUT,which would then make them venting the hot air out the top. Also flip the smaller fans over the boards so they are reversed as well. Removing the screens from the large fans will reduce the turbulence and noise considerably while also increasing air flow.
Floor/Table mounted?
Just remove the screens from the large fans.
Do not use the little filter foam in either case.(if it still had them)
_________________
My current list of PJ's AmPro 1 1/2-4600,4200, 1/2-3600,2600.
I do love my AmPro's
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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I curious Paul. Did you do a code 39 before and after to see any change in the internal temps with this change? Aside for the filters I mean.
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papalek
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1536
Location: Longs SC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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No I did not. It has been discussed many times over on AVS. It makes sense though. Any screens in front of a fan will reduce air flow and cause more noise. When it is ceiling mounted and hot air rises,why would you attempt to push it down? And you are using the hottest air (closest to ceiling) in the room to try and cool it.If you flip the fans and have them blow up they will be aiding the natural convection and drawing in cooler(lower) air.
_________________
My current list of PJ's AmPro 1 1/2-4600,4200, 1/2-3600,2600.
I do love my AmPro's
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| papalek wrote: | | No I did not. It has been discussed many times over on AVS. It makes sense though. Any screens in front of a fan will reduce air flow and cause more noise. When it is ceiling mounted and hot air rises,why would you attempt to push it down? And you are using the hottest air (closest to ceiling) in the room to try and cool it.If you flip the fans and have them blow up they will be aiding the natural convection and drawing in cooler(lower) air. |
Reason being....the fans blow air directly on the hottest components, usually the heatsinks. These are specifically what need to be cooled. Reversing them would then cause a draw of air from who knows where and thus maybe never be reaching the heatsinks causing them to run hotter. Manufacturers test these processes in various ways to come up with the proper solution.
So even blowing hotter ambient air directly is more cooling affective then drawing in cooler air to an area of no significance.
Faster component failure.
Even if the internal temp code test showed cooler ambient temps, the correct parts may not be getting cooled. The filter removal I do agree with tho.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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This is probably why I dont visit AVS very much.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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reversing the fans seems to be a less than stellar approach....doesn't it? I think blowing air out the back is important as it gets airflow over the heat sinks on those boards....but I guess blowing air out would do the same thing.
But, reversing the small fans would mean that they're not blowing on the neck boards...is this ok??
I was thinking of pulling air out the back by mounting a large and slow spinning fan outside the chassis....which would also allow me to slow the other 4 fans.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | papalek wrote: | | No I did not. It has been discussed many times over on AVS. It makes sense though. Any screens in front of a fan will reduce air flow and cause more noise. When it is ceiling mounted and hot air rises,why would you attempt to push it down? And you are using the hottest air (closest to ceiling) in the room to try and cool it.If you flip the fans and have them blow up they will be aiding the natural convection and drawing in cooler(lower) air. |
Reason being....the fans blow air directly on the hottest components, usually the heatsinks. These are specifically what need to be cooled. Reversing them would then cause a draw of air from who knows where and thus maybe never be reaching the heatsinks causing them to run hotter. Manufacturers test these processes in various ways to come up with the proper solution.
So even blowing hotter ambient air directly is more cooling affective then drawing in cooler air to an area of no significance.
Faster component failure.
Even if the internal temp code test showed cooler ambient temps, the correct parts may not be getting cooled. The filter removal I do agree with tho. |
The fans do indeed blow on the heatsinks. That produces the highest velocity airflow. Higher air speed means more heat removal. Especially important for cooling the focus modulator and the registration amps if alot of registration is being used. Do remove the screens and foam filters. There is lots of room for improvement in the cooling system. The best way to experiment is to get a temperature probe and take baseline readings of the heatsinks. Make one change and measure. Better? Worse? Ampro never put that kind of work into the design. They just added more and/or bigger fans until it didn't blow up in the factory.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | Better? Worse? Ampro never put that kind of work into the design. They just added more and/or bigger fans until it didn't blow up in the factory.
Scott |
Do you think Sony would ever admit to R&D like this? 
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I think those 2 large fans blowing air into the projector are not all that important if I have a huge fan in the rear pulling the air through the chassis. The case is sealed and the large amount of air blowing into the chassis just flows out the rear...I think I will lessen the fans blowing in and add a fan pulling air out the back...
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | They just added more and/or bigger fans until it didn't blow up in the factory.
Scott |
I reckon NEC did the same 
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:50 am Post subject: |
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The AMpro cooling design appears smarter than the NEC design...that's for sure. air is coming in and must exhaust out the back...At the very least, it's a logical airflow, whereas the NEC is just...well, it's just fans in 3 spots...and hope for the best. Plus the Ampro has most parts very well heatsinked and the NEC really doesn't.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:22 am Post subject: |
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Ampro did at least benfit from the Aquaray experience where a 115VAC fan (magnetic field made the picture squirm) was mounted in the box without any clear intake or exhaust path. All it did was stir the hot air around.
Scott
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"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| tse wrote: | Ampro did at least benfit from the Aquaray experience where a 115VAC fan (magnetic field made the picture squirm) was mounted in the box without any clear intake or exhaust path. All it did was stir the hot air around.
Scott |
LOL that's quality think'n 
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Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I'll show you how to lower both the power supply and internal temperature by 10-15 degrees without even opening up the projector. I'm doing a double shift at work today so I may be to tired to do it today but will post pictures tomorrow.
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Sweet! I look forward to that!
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Stefuel...bring on the pics!
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: |
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I've been searching for the pictures I took a couple of years ago but can't seem to find them so in the mean time, I'll just tell you. First put up a high rez signal like 1080P. The projector will run hottest like this. After about a hour, check the internal and PS temps and write them down. Now go look at the back of the PJ. On the left side is the input. In the center is the SMPS fan and on the right is the hot air outlet from the PJ. When the projector is upside down and up close to the ceiling, the hot air comes out and some of it rises and some of it is sucked back into the SMPS. The air that rises is sucked back into the belly fans. The projector continually re-circulates hot air. Now, remembering the readings, tape a piece of cardboard between the SMPS input fan and the back side ventallation so that it blocks the hot air from being sucked back in. I got a 10 degree drop with just the test.
What I did for a permanent solution was to build a turned down elbo from modeling wood that fit snug over the fan inlet and also a turned out elbo tha fits snug to the back and directs the hot air away from the projector so that it would not get sucked back into the belly fans. The net result was about a 20 degree drop in temp.
Other than that the only thing I do is twice a year I pull the SMPS and blow it out as it will get quite dirty and blow out the rest of the PJ at that time
_________________
Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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tse
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 1014
Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:11 am Post subject: |
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Wow! That makes total sense. Like I said before, there is plenty of room for improvement. Just do the work that Ampro didn't. Change, test. Change, test.
Scott
_________________
"Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want bread."
Thomas Jefferson
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benareeno
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1614
Location: ottawa, canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:08 am Post subject: |
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WHen I ceiling mount, I will hush box it and have extraction hooked up to the back right side of the pj....I think I could tame the fans a tad, and the extraction would be excellent. At least there is one clear place where the heat goes, unlike many other chassis'.
I have a set of 144's here too...should I go for it??
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