CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[David L]

Hi,

Couple of question from a CRT novice.

First question is it possible to get a dual link HDSDI 2K 4:4:4 output into a Barco cine 9?

Source is from a RED Rocket from Red digital cinema.

RED ROCKET board with Quad DVI and Dual Link HD-SDI:

· Decode and debayer 4K R3D files realtime. Hyper-accelerated transcode to any system codec. Specs to be posted upon completion of testing.
· Plays full quality realtime 4K to 4K monitor or projector from DVI output (requires REDBREAKOUT BOX). Plays full quality 2K/1080P scaled from 4K footage out the Dual Link HD-SDI from RED Rocket card.
· Plays full quality 2K scaled from 4K footage realtime through system graphics card and monitor.

Camera record r3d formats played back by red rocket card is:

5K (2:1) at 1-100fps
4K (2:1) at 1-125fps
Quad HD at 1-120fps
3K (2:1) at 1-160fps
2K (2:1) at 1-250fps
1080P (scaled from full frame) at 1-60fpsSecond

Just trying to work out if it is possible to get 2K at 24, 25 & 50 frames per second displayed from a Barco cine 9.

Second question, what would be the best practice screen size and projector setup for best results?

The space the projector will reside in is a room that has not widows, sealed door and ducted aircon. Width of 3.7M (12.13') at the front and 6M (19.69') at the back, length 5M (16.4') and height to ceiling is 2.7M (8.9') which is capable of holding 120KG. Maximum screen width possible is 3660mm or 144" maximum height 1530mm or 60". Audio listening position for 7.1 is equal distance of 2.6M to each speaker location, equipment rack is outside the room behind rear wall. Currently a blank slate and sadly remain that way until I can find the right projector to suit the budget and outcomes. Looking at DIY Wilsonart Designer White screen until I can confirm setup.

I am still searching the forums for previous stated wisdom. But any information or direction would be appreciated.

Thanks
David

[MikeEby]

Welcome to the forum David, Very impressive gear you have there.

With a CRT 24 or25 FPS is not really possible...If the projector does sync it will flicker really bad. Even doubled running 48 or 50 you will get flicker…I run my CRT at 72hz (71.928) to avoid judder from 2:3 pulldown.

Not knowing if you have the budget, one way I know of to convert HD-SDI to analog RGB-HV the Cine 9 can accept is to use a TVOne c2-2255a scaler. It should have no issue creating a 72Hz custom resolution.

ftp://ftp.tvoneftp.com/SpecSheets/SpecSheet-C2-2205A-2255A-Broadcast.pdf
http://www.tvone.com/c2-2200a-bcast-main.shtml

Even a high end CRT like the Cine 9 which is considered by many to be the best CRT projector ever made, may have issues fully resolving 1080p 72Hz.

There is a person on this forum that is using 2 of the TVOne units to create an edge blend projection system using 2 CRT Projectors. He might be able to answer any questions you have about the TVOne's.


Mike

[David L]

Thanks Mike for the welcome and the info. Gear is a bad case of access to the toys but trying to work out how to play at home and get a better end result.

[Nashou66]

[David L]

So this is what got me curious. Spec sheet for Cine 9 Max.addessable display is 2500 x 2000 Pixels, Max video and HDTV resolution 2500 TV lines. Scan Frequencies Horizontal 32 -132 kHz autolocking, Vertical 37-210 Hz autolocking

So I was hoping to display 2048x1152(16:9), 2048x1024(2:1) or 2048x853(2.4:1) pixels at frame rates of 24,25 and 50 at 92, 100 and 200 Hz. So should this not be possible from one(1) cine 9?

David

[Zebu Fellenz]

Just because the Cine 9 can address the resolution and refresh rate does not mean it will display that high of bandwidth, and fully resolve it. To do the resolutions you're talking about fully resolved you really need two machines and an edge blender.

Erik

[David L]

Ok thanks Erik. So to be realistic, what can one cine9 fully resolve?

I do appreciate the answers and information.

David

[Nashou66]

[Zebu Fellenz]

I bet you could resolve 2k at 50Hz, or come dead close to it.

Have you looked into any of the 2k digital machines? If you really need to run the resolution, refresh combo's you list this may be the best way to do it.

If you could run everything through a processor and output 2k at 48 or 60Hz I would go with the Cine 9 without a second thought.

[MikeEby]

The Cine 9 has rated bandwidth of 180Mhz, which btw was the highest rating of any CRT projector ever produced to my knowledge. Here is a link to a Video Signal Bandwidth Calculator. It also give a brief description of Bandwidth and what it means.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/videosignalcalc.html

Bandwidth Versus Video Resolution article.
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/750

The problem is with the refresh rates your asking for are very high, that results in high bandwidth requirements.

Mike

[donaldk]

Sony USA was selling off its first/'second' generation of 4K demo/loaner/barter machines at 50% of listprice, a reconditioned srx-r (or s)110 would have been a nice match to the red. Still $50K, though.

[David L]

I think there will be a number of new 4K projectors in the works. If Red digital cinema release Red Ray at approx $1K US then who knows what price will be for a consumer 4k projector.

[MikeEby]

[Nashou66]

Well, from what Mike Parker and others have said( I have no Cine 9 experience) the 180mhz band width is over stated. Mike says the Marquees bandwidth is the highest out there and i know for a fact it has the shortest Video path with the least amount of DC coupling, only one spot. Also on the latest marquee's the main Engineer who is a member here designed a peaking circuit on the video input module to boost the bandwidth up to 240mhz pixel clock. he mentioned it some where id have to look for it.

But the marquee is also a capable projector , and its still being made today and improved upon.

Athanasios

[MikeEby]

Oh by far the Marquees are the bandwidth king when in comes to the real world, the Cine 9 would probably be on par with a G90. My concern with the Cine 9 would be software limitations. I know some of the Runco's 9" (Barco) has software limits on higher scan rates.

Mike

[zGman]

My experience with a Runco dtv1200 was that there were no restrictions
on refresh rates or resolution. I tested it up to the limits of a high end
video card - can't recall exactly but know I went over the listed spec for
the cine9. The dtv1100 and 1101 are firmware limited, this is based on
the 1209S chassis. The dtv1200 has considerably better bandwidth
performance (on/off single pixel vertical line test) than the 1209S.
Particularly on the blue channel, which falls off rapidly on every other
Barco I have tested. You will not have very good results at 100Hz
without a P43 short persistance green tube, and 200Hz will be out of reach
unless you reduce resolution considerably. I have spent time with
a lot of high PJ's, including modded Marquee, personally I thought
the dtv1200 held its own in bandwidth, and has a lot of nice setup features.
Picture quality was excellent - however a pro setup would be needed
to get the best results.
G