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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | Personally Gary it concerned me when you were doing all of the modifications like swapping out cables and so forth without getting the projector running first. You had no baseline but I tend to be conservative when it comes to these things. I’m very sorry about your tube that really does suck.
Mike |
I always tell people on my Marquee thread that exact thing mike.... NEVER do mods to a non Working set. It makes no sense!!!!
From the previous linked thread on Garys Video Chain mods:
| Quote: | | Chip wrote: | | This drives me friggin mental. No one should attempt to mod a broken projector. It should be up and running with no obvious flaws. Mods should be done one at a time and tested prior to moving on to the next mod. If you do a whole bunch of mods without testing any of them first could leave you in a very bad situation. If the projector doesn't light off when the parts arrive, you won't know if it's the mods or the projector. Best of luck |
I totally agree and tell anyone who follows my Marquee thread the same. Only make changes on a working PJ and then test after a few part changes!!!! If you messed something up then you won't have to go through 50 pieces to find out what you did wrong. The big think is just to go slow and learn your PJ first. Two years ago i didn't know what LVPS was let alone
an OP Amp. Start slow, Most of the stuff i do can be applied to any piece of electronic equipment, they call it P.O.O.G.E'ing
Progressive Optimization of Generic Electronics. Interesting stuff from Audioexpress, you can order a binded copy of some articles of old equipment they POOGE'd but the ideas can be applied to lots of stuff.
As for Greg and his % increase thing, I actually told him to try to use another term or way to describe it, its just the way he talks I think like "that movie was 200% better than the first one" etc.
Athanasios |
Sorry Gary but we did caution you.......  Id send the whole set to Greg since he is closer to you than Curt to save on shipping costs, and from what I remember Curt wont work on previously modded Sets or Boards.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Gary sorry to hear of your troubles. Getting a set working (nevermind modding) can take some effort. On my Runco I have worked on and off over the past month to get it working right and it has taken more effort than I would have first thought. I agree with others here you are probably better sending the set or perhaps all the removalable boards to somebody who can do component level analysis.
Last edited by secstate on Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Oh I do.. but the price just goes way up. 
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secstate
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 720
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jkruger wrote: | How many other vultures are out there waiting for a chance at this pile of parts?
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I don't know the spot burn potential given what happened to his green (it isn't clear whether it was there before he installed the tube) should give folks pause for thought unless the cause can be isolated.... I guess if you get the whole chassis there isn't much to lose since the green is already nuked.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| secstate wrote: | | Gary sorry to hear of your troubles. Getting a set working (nevermind modding) can take some effort. On my Runco I have worked on and off over the past month to get it working right and it has taken more effort than I would have first thought. I agree with others here you are probably better sending the set or perhaps all the removalable boards to somebody who can do component level analysis. |
he'd have to send the whole set... have you seen what he did on the mods? he was right down to the bare chassis. All it takes is one solder splatter thinner than a hair to Blow something some where else. it needs to be gone through with a fine tooth comb.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Gary M.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Gary M. wrote: | ok, let me make this clear for everyone
NEVER and I mean NEVER fire up the 1209 pj with all the workings of the tube connected minus the actual tube, I did this to see if my scan failure would go away, I found out it did but not without a big cost
-Gary |
BULL SH*T!
I do this all the time, all makes, all models. you did something else to the set, or something shorted out or the neck board hit the motherboard traces, or.... |
so why was the video chain fine, not causing sport burns and running normal, but when I connect the focus magnet, yoke and neck card up to the unit minus the green tube and fire it up I get a glowing cooked RGB section and nuked green neck card
again the spot burns only happened on the section that was connected up this way, green only
I went over this thing with a fine tooth comb many times, nothing was shorted, along with the cooked RGB section it must have taken out the neckboard as well
the only other thing I did that comes to mind was connect a few connectors up the wrong way, like the RGB one from the controller into a connector on the motherboard instead of on the RGB board, but again nothing happened until this tube magnetics ordeal
maybe I didn't make this clear or not but the set ran fine until I did the green tube connections minus tube , that is when all the trouble started
-Gary
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Gary M. wrote: | got her going today with a huge help from MP, my EHT board was bad 
everything is fired up and rockin normal, but remember my funky smell? the fried video board, so I have no image only a bright full blown raster with the video leads connected at the neck cards, so that is the last piece of the puzzle, so close
thanks to MP who also sold me a green P19LUG at a killer price with very very faint wear, slapped the green c-element on her, filled with glycol and installed
gettin close!!! 
-Gary |
Gary if this is what you call Everything was running fine i'd have to disagree, to me everything is running fine is when there is an image being projected. At some point you have to admit you effed up buddy, sorry its true we all eff up, the sooner you accept it the better it will be for you.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Bang on !
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Gary M.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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believe me if I did I would be the first to say it, proudly, but I am not sure that I did
you guys are basically claiming that my coax mod was the start of this, correct? there is hardly a way to explain in words online why this isn't the case, you would have to be here in person to see what I have did, all the testing, all the inspecting, testing again, then the events in which the problems occurred would not indicate that to be a problem
first of all upon receipt in stock form, I had a bad quad, a bad G2 board and a bad EHT board, this had nothing to do with a mod obviously
after receiving these 3 parts to fix this I fired her up minus the green tube and its workings, I had no HV and a scan fail, couldn't figure out why, until I finally decided it was the missing green tube, so I slapped all of its magnetics in there and fired her up, scan fail and HV problems gone, but a bad smell came isntantly, traced it to the RGB boards and specifically the green sections on the boards, coincidence? I find that hard to believe, I made very sure those magnetics were connected to not be shorted, I mean very very sure, can't say 100% but 99%
so at that point I thought I had nuked the 2 RGB boards, a week later I finally get my green tube in, ready to install and everything goes fine, my mistake at this point was to fire it up with the known nuked RGB boards and what was unknown to me further down the chain and nuked green neck card, one that worked perfectly fine before the RGB boards went up in smoke, so I fire her up a few times, everything seems fine, no errors, good HV, RGB boards even sync to my signal and chaning of inputs and other testing, everything is fine except the expected no video because of the nuked RGB boards, I decide later on that evening to check over everything and I find the spot burns on the green only, and ultimately that the cooking of my RGB boards had taken out the green neck card, again green only, causing its spot burns
the only way I will prove my point is when I receive the replacement video chain with something special and fire this baby up, until then...., at this point the sequence of what has happened does not support my simple coax mod wrecking the unit
-Gary
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | first of all upon receipt in stock form, I had a bad quad, a bad G2 board and a bad EHT board, this had nothing to do with a mod obviously |
But you did the mods before you even had it running, this is what i mean. You should have got the PJ up and running and then went ahead with the tear down and do the RGB cables. First get the set up and running then do mods, a few at a time.
I stressed this On my Marquee thread. Other wise you run the risk of swapping out new unmodded boards into the PJ to get it running then have to put in your modded boards to find out which one is the culprit. I really do feel bad for you since you were soooo excited to get the PJ. I hope it comes together and I am wrong and none of your work was the cause of the latest failures.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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I am failing to see how you can get a spot burn on just one of the tubes. Even if the neck board or RGB board has a problem, it takes lack of deflection to get the burn only in one spot on the tube. And if the chassis loses deflection, you would think all 3 tubes would be similarly affected the same way. Furthermore, Barco goes overboard with spot burn protection circuits making this highly unlikely.
Gary, did you hook up the green with HV and neck board but without the defection yoke physically installed on the neck? Thats the only way I can see where you would get a spot burn.
Last edited by RVonse on Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, that's not true either. A failure on an RGB board or on a neck board can spot burn a tube. I've had it happen on an older 1208, where the neck board smoked, and I didn't see it. Ditto for the older Barco 800s.
But... I also don't buy that the quad AND the splitter AND the EHT board AND the RGB boards were all defective in this set. Whatever, it's all over at this point.
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RVonse
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3152
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | Actually, that's not true either. A failure on an RGB board or on a neck board can spot burn a tube. I've had it happen on an older 1208, where the neck board smoked, and I didn't see it. Ditto for the older Barco 800s.
. |
If you've seen it then I have to believe it.
Its just real hard for me to picture in my mind how an electron beam that is scanning the tube normally can do catastrophic damage in just one particular pin prick on the phospor.
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | Quote: | | first of all upon receipt in stock form, I had a bad quad, a bad G2 board and a bad EHT board, this had nothing to do with a mod obviously |
But you did the mods before you even had it running, this is what i mean. You should have got the PJ up and running and then went ahead with the tear down and do the RGB cables. First get the set up and running then do mods, a few at a time.
I stressed this On my Marquee thread. Other wise you run the risk of swapping out new unmodded boards into the PJ to get it running then have to put in your modded boards to find out which one is the culprit. I really do feel bad for you since you were soooo excited to get the PJ. I hope it comes together and I am wrong and none of your work was the cause of the latest failures.
Athanasios |
Athan, I understand what you are saying, and agree with you 100%, it wasn't smart to do a mod before the unit was running
when I first got the unit I did get pix for about 30 seconds and then the HV shutdown, so there was no RGB system problem to start, it only happened when I connected tube gear sans tube
-Gary
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: |
But... I also don't buy that the quad AND the splitter AND the EHT board AND the RGB boards were all defective in this set. Whatever, it's all over at this point. |
quad was bad and arcing, g2 board was split and arcing, EHT suddenly quite and starting blowing fuses while this was being confirmed,, splitter was never bad
the RGB boards nuked when I connected the tube magnetics without the tube
-Gary
Last edited by Gary M. on Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| RVonse wrote: |
Its just real hard for me to picture in my mind how an electron beam that is scanning the tube normally can do catastrophic damage in just one particular pin prick on the phospor. |
tell me about it, you can be more cautious checking everything there is to check, spot burns and tube damage are something that folks in this hobby get real serious about and watch everything as close as possible to try and prevent
problem is I could never have imagined a back neck card would spot burn a tube, I don't know enough about the Barco to know this and nobody told me or I would have never fired her up with the RGB boards toasted
anyway I guess all is not lost, the tube is not totally trashed, the spot burns are not very dark and are close enough to the bottom of the tube that I could actually pull off a 2.40:1 raster above it but I will probably get her running good use the tube to test, sell it and then get another tube, or I may keep it, with all the Runcos popping up I would love to have a 9" CRT gaming room, which the tube would be just fine for
-Gary
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1031
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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Gary M.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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ok guys
simple question for when I get my new video chain in and install it
what if anything should I do when I fire her up?
as it sits everything is working minus the video chain, which is being replaced, no errors or failures like scan, I have 2 nearly brand new blue and red crts installed(want to assure they remain that way), the spot burnt green remains until everything is working ok
I am replacing the RGB and Gain, the 3 neck cards, port 3 board is going to be removed for lighter load because I have no use for it
I need advice here, tired of throwing money in the garbage
-Gary
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Tom.W
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6635
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Never needed this but you could put a kill switch on the filaments in case a neck board goes into overdrive and you could also check all the voltages on the neck boards first. Never had a BG 808 or 1209s fail but I would ask Curt first before doing this...
Hope this helps.
Having a BAD day !
Tom
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