CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[schmoe]

Hello! I've been toying around with the idea of moving up to CRT projection (currently own RP-CRT). I've been soaking up as much as I can from the helpful articles that Curt's written and the posts in this forum. One thing I'm still not sure of is if I have a spot in my house good enough for projection. I was hoping to get some opinions from you folks.

The room in the house that seems to make the most sense, both in terms of size and function (it's already the "TV room") is our living room. That said, this room has, possibly, a few things going against it for projection.

The ceilings are vaulted, which complicates projector & screen placement. There's a spot at one end of the room where it transitions to the dining room that has a normal height ceiling, about 34" wide, where a projector could in theory be hung. It's only 34" wide on account of a big beam going across that separates the dining from living room. The distance from there to the wall I would be projecting towards is about 12 feet. Because the ceiling is only 34" wide, I have pretty much zero wiggle room to move the projecter forwards/backwards for optimal throw distance. How much trouble will this get me into?

The wall I'd be projecting towards has a huge window on it, so to make this work I'd have to install some kind of retractable screen that rolls out in front of the window and curtain rod. Is this feasible? Note that the ceiling raises at a steep angle at this wall due to the vaulted design. Will light coming from behind the screen shine through the screen?

There are other windows nearby, from the dining room, front door, etc. Actually, the room stays fairly dim during the day, but I have no experience with projectors so I'm not sure how much light is acceptable.

I'll never be able to paint all the walls black, install black out curtains, etc. This is still our "living room" - the first room you see when you walk into the house - and my wife would never let me do those sorts of things (though, interestingly, she's not opposed to the projector setup if it's done cleanly as it will create more space once we get rid of the behemoth 64" RPTV).

So, do you think I can make this work, or should I give it up? The bedrooms are too small, and other rooms have similar problems (vaulted ceiling, windows).

Thanks in advance for your advice.

-Joe

[zaphod]

some pictures might help, but i remember a guy here had the PJ hung from a vaulted ceiling by about 10 feet of metal rod and brackets....

[ecrabb]

The room itself with vaulted ceilings and such is no big deal - it's just an engineering problem to solve. Many people have front projection setups in similar rooms.

OTOH, ambient light - ANY ambient light - is bad for front projection - even if the light is pretty dim. It just depends how bright the projector is, how much light is in the room, and what your level of tolerance is for a substandard picture. The problem is compounded by the fact that CRTs are generally not bright projectors, compared to some of the digitals - even cheaper models - on the market. Then, with the ambient light, you also destroy one of the few truly wonderful advantages to CRT, which is excellent black level. Yours will be non-existent, and the ambient light will occlude much of the lower-IRE (darker) portions of the image and wash out much of the deep, vivid color a CRT FP setup has to offer.

Of course, if you watch mostly at night, and not so much during the day, maybe it wouldn't be a big deal. What about a combo solution? 42" LCD for TV and general viewing during the day, and the projector and retractable screen for movies and special events at night.

Can you borrow a portable screen and projector from a friend or the office or something to set up in your living room to get a feel for how much light you'll have hitting the screen?

SC

[Zebu Fellenz]

Pictures would really help, but really as long as you have enough throw distance anything is possible.

[schmoe]

I knew half way into writing my original post I should just get up off my lazy butt and take pictures. I'll try to post some tonight.

[schmoe]

OK, here we go, brought to you by the magic of panoramic stitching:



You can see the limited space in which a projector could fit. It's about 35" wide. The distance from the projector to where the screen would go is roughly 12 feet or so. There's a huge window and curtain on that wall, so I'd need some way to hide the screen when not in use.

Most of my viewing tends to be at night, so the lighting shouldn't be an issue most times (plus during the winter up here in Seattle it gets dark by 4:30pm anyway).

So, what do y'all think?

-Joe

[Zebu Fellenz]

I think you can make that work, If I was going to do it I would use a pulldown screen with a long black leader hanging down about 10' from the projector. This way you could hang the screen the right distance from the projector, have the screen right on the ceiling and not have the viewing area too high up.

[Angus_rg]

[Zebu Fellenz]

[schmoe]

Thanks for the quick responses.

[Zebu Fellenz]

Joe,

Yes you can get screens with long leaders, it should be an option when ordering a screen from the major manufaturers (Da-lite, Draper, Stewart, etc.)

The throw distance depends on the size screen you want as CRT's don't use zoom lenses, most sit back around 1.3x screen width, I use an 8' wide screen and my G70 is about 10' back so that is why I threw out that number, most here will reccommend between a 7-9' wide screen.

It shouldn't be that big of a project but it all depends on how you want it to look, if you go for a hushbox on the projector and a screen built into the ceiling it will be much more work

Erik

[schmoe]

Forgive me for the n00b question, but when you say "8' wide screen" do you mean the actual width or measured diagonally? Also, I'm assuming there's a bit of play in the numbers, and I don't need to be super precise in the placement, is that true? For example, if my screen is not exactly 10' away but more like 10.5', will I still be OK?

Thanks again for the help.

[WanMan]

I would think any room could be beaten into submission provided its not the kitchen or bathroom. My Mini Me room is a temp solution yet it was created by converting a 12'x14' bedroom that was over the garage. Part of the ceiling was tapered and the projector butts up against this. I am running a 100"NTSC screen that is 92" in ATSC format.

Ambient light? Not a problem. I sealed the window using MDF and adhesive-backed foam insulation. Hit the room with the darkest blue-purple paint (no surface got untouched), painted the screen wall with flat black paint, and carpet is jet black. Its a bat cave.

[drice1234]

[ecrabb]

<stupid part of my post deleted>

You guys are going to kill me, but Joe... If you really want the projector hanging under that walkway, and you really want the screen in front of the windows, a little 720p digital with handy-dandy zoom lens might be just the ticket. It ain't a CRT, but it's WAY easier to install, gives you the throw distance flexibility, probably some more brightness, and let's face it - a way lower aesthetic impact on what looks like a pretty nice living space.

Are you going to tear into the wall to run electrical and video cabling, or do some sort of surface raceway treatment?

The other option is a coffee table install. Might work in that big room. My G70 is just about 110 inches (just over 9 feet) from my screen. Not sure if that would work in your room or not. Maybe not - that might put it right in that opening. Just thinking out loud.

SC

[Mr. Green]

I think you'll be fine if that is 12 feet from the ledge to the screen (not window).

You could use small plant hanger brackets to bring the screen 4, 6, 8, up to 16" away from the window, plus the ceiling brackets aren't right above the lenses so you can have the projector protrude into the room 8" or so. I have about 8" from my ceiling bracket to the front of the lenses so if you use my idea to get the screen in front of the drapes, you've easily shaved a foot off your 12' estimate. I currently use 12" brackets for my screen to clear the stone on the fireplace.

You can see what I've done in my album (ignore the early ones - it's the later ones). http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/album_personal.php?user_id=1175 Also, there's the posibility of a long extension arm. I have a chief mount and my extension arm can lower the projector 4-6 feet. I think they make a longer one. Wait a sec, you have a beam in the very top center of your picture. could you hang a mount from that, or is it too close. The perspective makes it hard to tell.

I guess a third option is to use heavy duty Accuride drawer slides. They have a few that will hold 500lbs.

[schmoe]

[ecrabb]

Dude... Crap, I'm sorry. Yes, I had the throw distance backwards. I guess I was thinking about work or something when I wrote that. Duhhh... The throw distance is always longer than the screen WIDTH. We usually talk about screen WIDTHS in relation to throw because widths are constant in relation to the tube face. Diagonals complicate issues because the same diagonal will result in different throws, depending on aspect ratio. It's simpler to think in terms of width. I'll go back and delete the stupid part of my other post.

One thing to keep in mind is that the projector manuals and manufacturer's recommendations on throw distance are very conservative - some more than others. In general, the throw will be 10-15% shorter than recommended, but it depends on the projector and lenses. Let's figure out exactly what your throw will be - say from the front lip of that walkway to the opposite wall... and we can go from there.

Sorry for the confusion. Grrrrr....

Oh, and yes - a coffee table/floor mount is relatively fixed.

SC

[schmoe]

[schmoe]

Hello again. I'm trying to make sense of the throw distance formulas, and I have a few questions. I'm looking at picking up a used 9500LC with GT17 lenses.

Which formula to use?
I found two different pages on Curt's site for calculating TD, one here and one here. I'm assuming the latter link is what I should be using since it's a newer doc. Can any Marquee owners confirm?

Horizontal width vs. diagonal width
It's not clear to me from reading these formulas if W, width, means real horiztonal width or diagonal width. The first link does reference the diagonal width when talking about the range of screen sizes, but it doesn't specifically say what W means. But, after playing with the distance calculator it appears that W is horizontal width, hence my confusion.

4:3 vs 16:9
It appears these formulas had 4:3 in mind when they were written. I want to set up a 16:9 screen. Can these formulas still be used for calculating a 16:9 screen? If W = horiztonal width than my assumption is the formulas work the same.

At the end of the day, I have about 12' of throw and can shorten it a bit by changing where the screen hangs (it will be ceiling mounted), and I need to figure out if a 9500LC w/ GT17 lenses will work OK in this situation with a screen that's between 100 - 106 inches diagonally. I want to make sure I'm not underutilizing the phosphor area of the CRTs.

Thanks in advance for helping an aspiring CRT owner.

-Joe