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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: Stand alone DVD recorders with ATSC/QAM tuners?? |
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I was thinking of adding a stand alone DVD recorder to my ever bulging rack of stuff.
Does anyone make a DVD recorder that can do ATSC, QAM record to DVD-DL disk and output the highdef signal from the ATSC/QAM tunner?
I see reviews of some that look pretty great untill someone buys one and says you can't get the highdef signal outta the tuner part. WTF is up with that??
I was looking at the Sony RDR-GXD455, not sure if you can get high def out of it though??
Anyone got a DVD recorder that can output the highdef signal, not just the upscalled DVD?
TIA
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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On that note, why is there no selection of "just an OTA tuner" boxes? Samsung seems to be the only player left here (apart from the .gov coupon things), and their single offering leaves much to be desired.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | On that note, why is there no selection of "just an OTA tuner" boxes? Samsung seems to be the only player left here (apart from the .gov coupon things), and their single offering leaves much to be desired. |
I'm surprised there are any! The demand has to be next to insignificant
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Stand alone DVD recorders with ATSC/QAM tuners?? |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | I was thinking of adding a stand alone DVD recorder to my ever bulging rack of stuff.
Does anyone make a DVD recorder that can do ATSC, QAM record to DVD-DL disk and output the highdef signal from the ATSC/QAM tunner?
I see reviews of some that look pretty great untill someone buys one and says you can't get the highdef signal outta the tuner part. WTF is up with that??
I was looking at the Sony RDR-GXD455, not sure if you can get high def out of it though??
Anyone got a DVD recorder that can output the highdef signal, not just the upscalled DVD?
TIA |
I've not seen one. If unencrypted, your best bet is a PC. Other than that, a firewire capable box and good ol' D-VHS.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm surprised there are any! The demand has to be next to insignificant |
I guess, but then how are PJ users receiving OTA ATSC?
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm surprised there are any! The demand has to be next to insignificant |
I guess, but then how are PJ users receiving OTA ATSC? |
I'd say a pretty darn small amount. Maybe some here in the CRT world, but in my daily travels I don't meet anyone that doesn't get their HD via Cable or Sat usually with an embedded DVR.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Axatax
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 403
TV/Projector: Sony VPH-G70Q (aka Barco Cine8 Onyx)
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have cable, but they apply higher compression for the local ATSC channels (sat. even more so).
It kills me that there's apparently a market for $30,000.00 speaker cables, but not for stand-alone OTA tuners!?
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | | On that note, why is there no selection of "just an OTA tuner" boxes? Samsung seems to be the only player left here (apart from the .gov coupon things), and their single offering leaves much to be desired. |
What a coincidence. I bought the Samsung DTBH260S. It's a little retarded in so much as there are NO control buttons on the front panel. Also you cant do component and HDMI at the same time. Nor will it do native signals. There's a hardware switch to select 480i, 480P, 720P, and 1080i and a 2nd switch to do HDMI/Component. On the upside you can set it to 1080i and forget it. I had it running on my Sony G520P monitor, I watched Hero's on it. It looked great.
I tried all the resolution settings too. 720P has ridiculously wide porches. So much so in fact I had to widen the raster off the tube edges to make the image fit the screen. So I switched back to 1080i.
The other stupid this is there's no RF modulator in it. SO it didn't qualify for the $40 rebate coupon. The gov doesn't consider it a "converter" box. I grabbed an open box unit. It's neat with the QAM tunning. I had it hooked up to Comcast and got about 8 channels, plus all the radio channels. The HD looked pretty good, but there's an issue with the component input on the D50 at my G/F's place. Every things dark and has a green tint. I'll ask about that in a separate thread.
Unfortunately I got NO channels on Roger's cable. Seems they encrypt everything; bastards! The ATSC worked great here on a first scan I got about 16 channels.
I had it hooked up to the HDFury1 since I don't have a component to RGBHV converter box here. I really need to try Kim's gamma dongle on it. I'll try that out soon. IT's 4am and I'm gettin' a little tired.
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I also picked up a Zenith "converter" box with the RF ch3/4 modulator in it. That one qualified for the $40 coupon. Making the final price $19.95. I put that on on my G/F's 14" TV in her bedroom. She loves it. It's hooked up to the RadioShack set top adjustable antenna. A good little combination. Then again she's not to far from the broadcast site either so that helps.
The Zenith also gives you composite video and L/R audio outputs and it passes the analog signals through. Complete aspect control without going into the menu so you can fill out the little 14" TV screen. Not bad for $20 bucks.
I looked at all the DVD and DVD/VHS recorders at Best Buy and so far as the sales drone could tell me, none of them have a high def output for the ATSC/QAM tunner; just for the upscalled DVD. That's just stupid!
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Last edited by AnalogRocks on Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | I have cable, but they apply higher compression for the local ATSC channels (sat. even more so).
It kills me that there's apparently a market for $30,000.00 speaker cables, but not for stand-alone OTA tuners!? |
It's a lot easier to make money selling 500 $30,000 speaker cables which cost $15,000 to tool and manufacture than it is to make money selling 5000 $100 ATSC tuners which cost $500,000 to tool and manufacture.
Regardless: There are a bunch of ATSC PC TV tuner cards out there. Kind of a pain in the ass, but it'd get the job done.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| perisoft wrote: | | Axatax wrote: | I have cable, but they apply higher compression for the local ATSC channels (sat. even more so).
It kills me that there's apparently a market for $30,000.00 speaker cables, but not for stand-alone OTA tuners!? |
It's a lot easier to make money selling 500 $30,000 speaker cables which cost $15,000 to tool and manufacture than it is to make money selling 5000 $100 ATSC tuners which cost $500,000 to tool and manufacture.
Regardless: There are a bunch of ATSC PC TV tuner cards out there. Kind of a pain in the ass, but it'd get the job done. |
Try explaing a HTPC to your g/f /wife/sister/mother/grandmother/mother-in-law.
I want a stand alone tuner that my G/F can use without calling me on the phone everytime she want's to start it up or change a channel.
The Zenith solved that nicely.
Too bad the Samsung can't recieve any of the QAM stuff here in Toronto. Seem's the cable co has it all encrypted even the stuff I can get over the air with the antenna! DOH!
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Axatax wrote: | I have cable, but they apply higher compression for the local ATSC channels (sat. even more so).
It kills me that there's apparently a market for $30,000.00 speaker cables, but not for stand-alone OTA tuners!? |
I have cable and I'd bet you a very large sum of money you could not tell the difference between the local ATSC channels and my cable in a single-blind test.
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Dave
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: |
I also picked up a Zenith "converter" box with the RF ch3/4 modulator in it. That one qualified for the $40 coupon. Making the final price $19.95. |
So, the Canadian government is handing out $40 coupons also?
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| paw wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: |
I also picked up a Zenith "converter" box with the RF ch3/4 modulator in it. That one qualified for the $40 coupon. Making the final price $19.95. |
So, the Canadian government is handing out $40 coupons also? |
Nope, this was on the US side of the border. Our change over date is Aug 2011. Maybe by then we will also have a coupon or two.
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I saw RDR-GXD455 at my local Best Buy
DVD Recorder with HD Tuner
Model Number: RDR-GXD455
Built-in HDTV Tuner (ATSC/NTSC/QAM Tuner)
upconverts DVD
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665186460
$250
It looked pretty cool. I don't remember seeing any other DVD recorders with ATSC/QAM tuners.
Looking at the owner's manual, it will pass through VHF/UHF signals. So, that should handle the ATSC side. It looks like output from cable/sat boxes only accepted as composite. I also found this statement
HD (High Definition) signal through this recorder is converted to SD (Standard Definition) signal, even if the HDMI OUT connection is used.
As I was typing this, I was wondering why don't you just use a simple signal splitter? 1 output to this and 1 output to the TV? There are also combiners, multiplexers I think is the right name. I'm wondering if you could combine the ATSC & QAM signals into this box?
I poked around on sonystyle and saw this
DVD Recorder & VHS Combo Player with HD Tuner
Model Number: RDR-VXD656
Built-in HDTV Tuner (ATSC/NTSC/QAM Tuner)
upconverts VHS! I haven't seen this any where else. Yeah, yeah. I know. Garage in garage out.
I thought this spec was interesting
Two Way One Touch Dubbing
Allows for dubbing from VHS to DVD or reverse by pressing one button on the front of the unit
Shouldn't "dubbing" or copying of DVDs not be allowed? I guess now that DVDs are passe, it's OK. I did find these statements in the owner's manual:
Note that when you record copy-protected software to a tape, picture may appear disrupted when you play back the tape
Copyrights
Recordings made from discs and other copyrighted materials are solely for individual enjoyment and other unauthorized use is prohibited under copyright law
Unauthorized editing of copyrighted material is prohibited under copyright law.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665186462
$330
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Last edited by paw on Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| paw wrote: | I found it! I found it!
I saw this at my local Best Buy
DVD Recorder with HD Tuner
Model Number: RDR-GXD455
Built-in HDTV Tuner (ATSC/NTSC/QAM Tuner)
upconverts DVD
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665186460
$250
I poked around on sonystyle and saw this
DVD Recorder & VHS Combo Player with HD Tuner
Model Number: RDR-VXD656
Built-in HDTV Tuner (ATSC/NTSC/QAM Tuner)
upconverts VHS! I haven't seen this any where else. Yeah, yeah. I know. Garage in garage out.
I thought this spec was interesting
Two Way One Touch Dubbing
Allows for dubbing from VHS to DVD or reverse by pressing one button on the front of the unit
Shouldn't "dubbing" or copying of DVDs not be allowed? I guess now that DVDs are passe, it's OK. I did find these statements in the owner's manual:
Note that when you record copy-protected software to a tape, picture may appear disrupted when you play back the tape
Copyrights
Recordings made from discs and other copyrighted materials are solely for individual enjoyment and other unauthorized use is prohibited under copyright law
Unauthorized editing of copyrighted material is prohibited under copyright law.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665186462
$330 |
Oh yeah I saw some of those too. BUT. Do they actually output the high def signal at the component outputs or the HDMI? OR do you just get the upscalling of DVD/VHS and the internal tuner doesn't pass the highdef signal out? That's what I was running into.
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: |
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AR
I read more closely your 1st post. DUH! It's about bed time for me. I edited my post and added some info about signal pass through. ATSC looks like a go. I'm not sure about QAM.
OH! HDMI no HD output. Only SD.
Now wait a minute! The features page talked about upconverting DVDs. I looked at the Video Setting HDMI Resolution (P 79). It mentions 720p and 1080i output. Those are not SD resolutions. There's some conflicting statements in this manual! Have a read and see if you can figure it out.
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Aubrey
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AnalogRocks
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Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| paw wrote: | AR
I read more closely your 1st post. DUH! It's about bed time for me. I edited my post and added some info about signal pass through. ATSC looks like a go. I'm not sure about QAM.
OH! HDMI no HD output. Only SD.
Now wait a minute! The features page talked about upconverting DVDs. I looked at the Video Setting HDMI Resolution (P 79). It mentions 720p and 1080i output. Those are not SD resolutions. There's some conflicting statements in this manual! Have a read and see if you can figure it out. |
As far as I can tell, and I'm going from memory now as I have been looking at this for a few months (since I was on vacation in August actually ) All the new DVD recorders and VHS /DVD combo's are required to have an ATSC tuner, the QAM is just gravey and the NTSC isn't always included but damed nice to have.
HOWEVER. They are not required to output the highdef signal over the component or HDMI! W T F !!!
I swear we all need to get together and manufacture a proper DVD recorder with all the bells and whistles the real home thater guy needs. Like say oh outputting the G.D. high def signal! I can't stand half assed produsts that are made by people with no common sense. 
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