CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

[Satanier]

Hello everyone, I have been using a lumenlab projector I built for the last few years, but the brightness has never been satisfying, dim corners, and the colors aren't as vibrant as I want. contrast is also lacking.


I've decided to step up to a real projector, and CRT seems to be perfect for me. After much research I've settled upon a Sony 12xx or equivalent. (My budget is 500 or less, perhaps 600 with shipping.)


Curt Palme has some 17xx available, a 1271 for 400 dollars. This price seems good, since I know its going to be a good set with little to no wear as he describes it. The problem is, with 200 or so dollars shipping, this becomes a 600 dollar projector. Do you guys think it would still be a good value at that price? Or should I try to find one locally. If so, how might I go about doing that, I live in NH.


Thanks,


Tony

[rabies_70]

Curt's guarantee and support are what make his products a supremely good deal. Sure, you can find a 12xx for less $, but caveat emptor. And who knows what condition it will really be in. With a private party purchase you won't get the support Curt is known for. And I can almost guarantee if something goes wonky on the unit from a private party sale, you'll be hanging in the wind. I've never heard anyone say anything but good stuff about how Curt stands behind his sales. Good luck and welcome to the forum

[perisoft]

Depends what your goals are, and the time you have.

If you want a sure bet, and aren't after a huge screen, a 1271 from Curt will be great.

If you're comfortable learning a lot and spending a ton of time, you can dig around on Craigslist or eBay, and you could well end up with a better machine for the same amount of money, or less (I got a 1271 in pretty good condition for $0 from a Craigslist score in Brooklyn; all it needed was a new fan). On the other hand, you might spend six months digging and end up with a paperweight.

Curt's going to stand behind what he sells, and you won't have to worry about it being dead on arrival. As for the 1271, it's got great color out of the box, and is pretty easy to set up. If I were you, I'd stick to a 70" wide or less screen, though. I was actually very happy running mine on a 60" wide screen, floor-mounted in front of my couch. At that size, the image really popped, even on a piece of foam core!

$600 would be crazy for a 1271 from Some Dude. Personally, I think it's a little bit expensive even from Curt, but that's because I spent $600 on my whole HT and consider spending a hundred hours fixing something up par for the course. But comparing it with a $600 digital, it's a no-brainer.


Some screenshots from my (BADLY set-up) 1271 - DVDs played with an HTPC. Mainly they do a good job showing the color. All bets are off if you're reading this post on a lousy display

(This shot had the aspect ratio wrong... Milla's not quite that gaunt )







Hope this helps!

[Satanier]

Well, it would only be 600 from curt because of the 200 dollar shipping charge. I'm viewing those shots on a Dell 2407 24" lcd which is a pretty good reference display, and they look great. I can imagine it looks even better in person.

I've read that ES focus machines can lose their focus after 4000-5000 hours, so I'm hoping when curt says the tubes are great they don't have much over 1500 hours or so? I really want this to last me a few years at least.

[kal]

[kal]

[perisoft]

[Satanier]

Definitely going for a ceiling mount, and for a screen right now I have a 178" screen from blackout cloth and wood strapping I made, but it looks like thats going to be too big for this so I'm looking into Wilsonart panels about 6 or 7 feet wide at home depot, as I have heard these work great.

[n@t]

Hi,

unsharp images:)
I do not see any "boobeln" in the yellow line.

Bernd

[kal]

[kal]

[Satanier]

I'm very confused by n@t's post.


I do think the shots posted look great, and I appreciate everyone's input thus far.

Does anyone have any shots of a video game console or PC game /// PC running on a Sony 12xx /// Barco 800?

I'm curious as to how they might look as I plan on using the machine for some gaming as well as movie viewing, and I

haven't been able to find any shots of a machine in this class running a game.

Also, how might this machine deal with some ambient light? My lumenlab is basically unusable unless the room is 100% pitch

black, can I expect similar here? If that's the case I'm OK with that, as I'm sure the contrast, colors, and brightness will all

be superior on a unit such as this, compared to what I have now.

[kschmit2]

n@t (Bernd) is just having fun. He has a Cine9 (or Reality 909)

[Mr. Green]

Welcome to the forum.

I would strongly suggest buying your first projector from Curt. I did last August and I've been very happy. I was also looking at the 12XX's when I first shopped, but I decided to save up for a few more months to get an NEC 9pg+ instead. Most of these guys know what they are looking for and will know a good deal when they see it. Besides, just like everyone here, you start somewhere and over the years, you'll upgrade. Get your feet wet, get a taste for it and start putting some money away each paycheck so you can get a 1209 or Marquee 9500 in a few years, when these guys have their 909's.

Also, keep in mind a lot of the really helpful guys here have the nice 9" projectors so in their eye a 12XX isn't great, but for starting out, you'll likely be happy. Just make sure the projector can handle what you want to throw at it. If you want high def 1080p or high computer resolution, you might have to save a bit longer and get a better machine.

The first projector I got to see was a Barco 801s with a PS2 and a PC hooked up to it. It did a fine job and was enough to sell me on CRT. He didn't have any high def stuff at the time so I have no idea what kind of potential it had in that area, but standard def was really nice and computer icons were readable as was text on a word document.

Screenshots... look like garbage compared to how they look in person. Some guys like Cliff and co. take marvelous pictures (see the screenshot thread), but I bet the image is simply jaw dropping in person. See if there is anyone within a day trip from your house that is willing to show you their setup of a 12XX. There is nothing like seeing it in person.

Let us know if you need any other info.
Cheers,
Chris

[perisoft]

Games looked great on my 1271, particularly Bioshock. You can get away with running lower resolutions and still having stuff look really good, too; the image is so smooth that things really pop.

The darker the better for CRT; they're not hugely bright. A smaller screen helps a lot. You don't need absolute pitch black, particularly for gaming - if you have, say, a couple of dimmable spot lights you can cut down to 10% and aim at your seating area, pointing away from the screen, you can do just fine. You won't get a good picture in a room with untreated windows in the sun, though; that's for sure. For absolute best effect, pure black is the way to go.

For reference, my HT is dark brown matte all around, and I have the black level good enough that if I leave the door open to another room with a window that a half moon is shining through, it kills the absolute blacks. And those blacks make sudden flashes of full bright look like you're staring into a car's brights. It's fantastic!

[Mr. Green]

Perisoft is right. A very dark room is much better, not that I listened to anyone here. I have mine in my family room with south facing windows and on a bright day it's a bit annoying. The image washes out a lot, but I watch it anyways. Take a look at my photo album. The shot from "Meet the Robinsons" was taken on a very bright sunny summer day with nothing but blinds shut (brightness at 40% and contrast at 50%). You can still watch a movie, but I'd avoid ones that have a lot of dark in them. Save the dark movies for nightfall. Once winter rolls around though I'll have darkness before dinner for 6 months so I'm not worried.

[Zebu Fellenz]

Mr. Green,

That is a nice looking setup you have there. I noticed a few things that look like they could be improved, first it looks like your aspect-ratio is off as all the screens look too tall, this can be fixed be reducing the V-size. It also looks like the black level (brightness) is too high as you can see the 1.78:1 image area on 2.35:1 films on the screen. Do you have any shots from the PS3 Blu-ray?

Looking Good.

Erik

[Satanier]

Thanks for all the great responses guys,

Does anyone have a shot of a CRT projector running a windows desktop or a video game with text on screen? I'd really like to see what sort of picture I might expect as I may be using this for a fair amount of gaming / windows use, although it will be primarily for movies and television.

Also, I was at my parents place tonight playing around with their Sharp XR-10X DLP and I started to become tempted by the idea, since it supports almost 720p and is VERY bright, and can be had for about 550 or so right now. However, color reproduction isn't the greatest, and I don't like the idea of a 2000 hour bulb that is 300 dollars to replace. I also really like the idea of CRT, the older school technologies, the 3 tubes, the simpler easier to service electronics. And also from what I've read, superior colors, contrast, and black levels. Just how inferior is the brightness? I set up my lumenlab next to my parents DLP and tried them one at a time, and the lumenlab is just a joke in comparison. I know a CRT like the sony 12xx wont be as bright as their DLP, since its about 650 lumens, but how might the watchability compare? I'm hoping even an entry level CRT wouldn't be nearly as bad as this lumenlab is. It's worth noting that I have never seen a CRT projector in real life. I'm also curious as to how sharply text can be rendered on a CRT such as the sony 12xx, compared to CRT or DLP technologies.

[Mr. Green]

Ok, here's a few shots from my 9PG+ when I first had it setup using a PC. I was using a laptop with 800X600 resolution (I think). I don't use a HTPC any more. I was really a nube when I took these. I think I'd had the projector running under 10 hours at that point. Keep in mind the NEC's are a lot fussier to set up. I'm told other projectors take less time.

Also, keep in mind that the corner focus hadn't been done (I was too scared to play with astig magnets back then, though not anymore), geometry was waaaay off and I'm projecting on a basement wall (with moving boxes and the drop ceiling in there too). Ignore the +'s on the wall, I was trying to find the center.

The more times I set it up the better it looks. Now that I look at these old pictures it is very close to how the Barco 801s looked (except his geometry was better done). I'm only referring to how the icons and such looked. I would guess that a 1271 would look similar.

I don't want any comments about the desktop. It is my wifes laptop. I'm not that vain.

The game is a screenshot from stalker.

One thing you'll love about CRT vs. a computer screen is it is VERY easy on the eyes. I watch it for hours without fatigue unlike digitals that give me headaches within an hour long meeting at work.

[Mr. Green]

[jask]

None of those pictures do justice to Chris' setup. It really looks much better,and I saw it on a sunny day with ambient light!! everyone here has spent time fine tuning setup and the huge gains are in those first 5 or 6 times
Chris,I have a good laser I can send out,if you want to try tweaking your geometry.

[Mr. Green]

Thanks John, I posted those because he wanted to know how desktops look. I know full well that screen shots don't do CRT justice, but as a new person to the technology they are sometimes all you have to go on, unless someone is willing to do a demo of their setup. If you see screenshots and are impressed, you'll be astounded when you see one in person.

The only other desktop shot I've seen is the one Kal took, but that is a pricy projector compared to a 12XX so it would likely give an unrealistic idea of how a 12XX would look. The 801s I saw looked softer than Kal's shot (which looks amazing), so I thought the ones I took would give a realistic idea. The corners will be softer, but text is very readable. Keep in mind I have the crappiest point and shoot digital camera around. I have to take 10 pictures of anything to make a screenshot look even remotely good.

Screen = BIG difference. Everyone tried to talk me out of a high gain screen because of the danger with hot spots, but I'll tell you it helps the brightness of the image on a low lumen projector. I have a nice vibrant image with no hotspots, but my projector is supposedly only 850 lumens. I'm not running a 1200 lumen Marquee or anything. I think for the low light CRT's high gain screen would/does make a world of difference.

Also Satinier, I didn't see the part of your post regarding brightness. It isn't as big of a deal as a lot of CRT info leads you to believe. It's all about light control. If you can make it dark it will look fabulous, if you can't, it washes out. As Jask says, he saw my set up on a bright sunny day and it's watchable at only 58% brightness. Would a CRT purist agree? Not a chance. You have to decide what is acceptable to you. Remember, in winter it gets dark earlier and it is rare you would want to watch it during the middle of the day... not that it stops me. I might end up in a house one day with a basement that will have a dedicated theatre room and I'll be like "How did I ever manage", but right now, everyone that sees it loves it and most importantly my wife and I love it. Part of me likes that I don't have to go down to a "cave" to enjoy this hobby.