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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: 8500 guided setup raster centering - what is it? |
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I've still not figured this out...
When you go through the guided setup you move the rasters around electronically, or at least they want you to.
When I first set up the projector I centered the rasters by moving the focus yokes, and I didn't go into the guided help at all. This was after an initialization, of course.
But, what exactly is that raster-centering step in the guided setup? I've not found any way to access it from the menus, which makes me unsure of whether it is actually reset when you initialize. Seems like it should be, and someone would have mentioned it in all the setup guides if it wasn't, but it bugs me that there seems to be no direct access to it.
Since I did all that initial setup synced to internal freq. #2 (per the Bill Blue guide), things shifted on me when I connected my source at 720p/96. Not just phase I'm talking about here, the raster itself seems to have shifted.
So I am after two things here. First, I would like to shift the raster back electronically as a temporary kludge, so it would be nice if there is a way to access that in the user menus that I am just missing. I do so loath the guided help menus. Second, I eventually want to go back and do stig and centering while synced to a higher freq., and I want to verify that electronic raster adjustment is zeroed when I do.
Can anyone clear this up for me?
Thanks.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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the raster centering in the Help menu uses the Convergence circuit to do this. A lot of folks think that you shouldn't use this AT ALL or he sky will fall down. Truth is that you should definitely center the rasters as well as you can by Osciallting the focus yokes but it's also perfectly fine to use the Convergence to nudge the raster a little this way or that during the HELP menu process. The convergence circtuit on a Marquee is very robust and was designed to tweak the hell out of the rasters during your first "Interpolated" convergence run through anyway.
When your adjusting the center zone in Interpolated convergence it's actuall movingthe whole raster anyway. The reasin they have you center them first during HELP GUIDED SET-UP is so that you can go through the process of centering before you do the mechanical alignment, thereby insuring the rsater is not off the tube face and spoilling onto the bell
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, that makes perfect sense.
So... if I hit 0 in the green convergence menu, am I resetting that adjustment as well, or will it reset only when doing a full init? Or is there a third option, some way to reset that without initializing the projector?
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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right, you can re-set both the R+B convergence by pushing zero in the convergence menu and also green by pushing zero in the Conv. Service menu.
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | right, you can re-set both the R+B convergence by pushing zero in the convergence menu and also green by pushing zero in the Conv. Service menu. |
Sorry, but just to clarify, that reset will also clear any of the whole-raster adjustment applied through the help menu raster positioning step?
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | the raster centering in the Help menu uses the Convergence circuit to do this. |
Uhhhh
Not exactly. Static convergence, which moves the entire frame, is delivered as a dc offset through the horizontal and vertical deflection boards; the convergence amp does the zones. If the sweep yoke wires are transposed, the wrong color moves.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | the raster centering in the Help menu uses the Convergence circuit to do this. |
Uhhhh
Not exactly. Static convergence, which moves the entire frame, is delivered as a dc offset through the horizontal and vertical deflection boards; the convergence amp does the zones. If the sweep yoke wires are transposed, the wrong color moves.. |
no way!  I know if you reset convergence it also re-sets the static convergence. I really had no idea it was delivered through the deflection circuitry though, that's surprising.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | the raster centering in the Help menu uses the Convergence circuit to do this. |
Uhhhh
Not exactly. Static convergence, which moves the entire frame, is delivered as a dc offset through the horizontal and vertical deflection boards; the convergence amp does the zones. If the sweep yoke wires are transposed, the wrong color moves.. |
no way! I know if you reset convergence it also re-sets the static convergence. I really had no idea it was delivered through the deflection circuitry though, that's surprising. |
Hehe
Be my guest, swap some yoke plugs around. Swap red for green and watch green move in the regular convergence routine
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't doubt it Tim, it's just strange that conventional wisdom all these years has been that using only the fcous coil to perfectly center the raster puts less stress on the convergence circuit and therefore is more stable. If static converegnce is completely outside the actual convergence board then is this still true?
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | I don't doubt it Tim, it's just strange that conventional wisdom all these years has been that using only the fcous coil to perfectly center the raster puts less stress on the convergence circuit and therefore is more stable. If static converegnce is completely outside the actual convergence board then is this still true? |
That may be true for other makes/models, my comments are directed only to all Marquees, Vision 1-2-3, Madrigal MP8 and 9 and the other rebadged Marquee models.
Eliminating most or all static correction is still less power consumption in the chassis, less heat. To put the least load on the convergence amp, you want to match raster heights (service menu) and raster widths (width coils on the HDM) and then you have the best possibility of the least convergence drift over time.
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | To put the least load on the convergence amp, you want to match raster heights (service menu) and raster widths (width coils on the HDM) and then you have the best possibility of the least convergence drift over time. |
Would it be the vertical deflection circuits that the service menu height adjustment controls?
Also, since you mention it, know offhand what a suitable length and blade type/size tool for adjusting the coils is? I came across a nifty ceramic, 4-bit non-conductive/ESD tool on closeout when I was ordering some soldering stuff the other day, which seemed like it would be nicer to have than the plastic ones, but the blade sizes are pretty small -- 0.9mm, 1.8mm, PH 0 Special, PH 0 -- and I wasn't sure if the shafts would be long enough. The length wasn't given, but it looks like they are a bit under 2cm.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| lyd wrote: | | Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | To put the least load on the convergence amp, you want to match raster heights (service menu) and raster widths (width coils on the HDM) and then you have the best possibility of the least convergence drift over time. |
Would it be the vertical deflection circuits that the service menu height adjustment controls?
Also, since you mention it, know offhand what a suitable length and blade type/size tool for adjusting the coils is? I came across a nifty ceramic, 4-bit non-conductive/ESD tool on closeout when I was ordering some soldering stuff the other day, which seemed like it would be nicer to have than the plastic ones, but the blade sizes are pretty small -- 0.9mm, 1.8mm, PH 0 Special, PH 0 -- and I wasn't sure if the shafts would be long enough. The length wasn't given, but it looks like they are a bit under 2cm.
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Yes, those are gains on the vertical board, match red and blue to the green height.
Use only non-metallic hex tool, size is 0.100 inch, GC makes one, type AS-8606 or similar.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | lyd wrote: | | Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | To put the least load on the convergence amp, you want to match raster heights (service menu) and raster widths (width coils on the HDM) and then you have the best possibility of the least convergence drift over time. |
Would it be the vertical deflection circuits that the service menu height adjustment controls?
Also, since you mention it, know offhand what a suitable length and blade type/size tool for adjusting the coils is? I came across a nifty ceramic, 4-bit non-conductive/ESD tool on closeout when I was ordering some soldering stuff the other day, which seemed like it would be nicer to have than the plastic ones, but the blade sizes are pretty small -- 0.9mm, 1.8mm, PH 0 Special, PH 0 -- and I wasn't sure if the shafts would be long enough. The length wasn't given, but it looks like they are a bit under 2cm.
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Yes, those are gains on the vertical board, match red and blue to the green height.
Use only non-metallic hex tool, size is 0.100 inch, GC makes one, type AS-8606 or similar.
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is this it?
http://www.newark.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=46F1989&CMP=KNC-G10000672&HBX_OU=50&HBX_PK=AS-8608
Athanasios
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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.1 inches is 2.5mm
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | Use only non-metallic hex tool, size is 0.100 inch, GC makes one, type AS-8606 or similar. |
Ohhh... okay, it's a hex screw. Well cripes, that's a pretty cantankerous engineering decision.
Thanks for the part number.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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