CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

**kal**

How low can you go with a Spyder2 before the readings become incorrect? 10IRE? 20IRE

It's obvious because you never get the same reading twice (which would be the preferred result), or is it just incorrect always the same way? (the not preferred result).

Just curious.

Kal

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

Have you made the changes in HCFR to take longer and multiple readings at low IREs? It takes a lot longer that way but the results seem to be pretty repeatable. At least I think they were, the last time I checked it.

**kal** · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject:

I haven't done anything yet... I've only played with a CA-100 colorimeter and did everything manually with a spreadsheet in the past to record xyY values.

I've got a Spyder2 now and HCFR running and have gone through doing my LCD display readings (before and after) as Rec601 and that worked well so I want to try it in the CRT projector.

I'll increase the HCFR read times then for lower readings. Thanks Gary. What's a good read time value in seconds?

As well, I'm assuming I should point the sensor at the screen at an angle and have HCFR set up for "LCD/projector" and not "CRT" right? Should the sensor filter be on or off?

I'll be calibrating for Rec709 (HD colourspace) using the "manual" reading option of HCFR using the free AVS HD 709 calibration disk. (HD is more inportant to me than SD so I won't bother calibrating for SD ... should be fairly close though).

Kal

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

I actually don't even have HCFR installed right now so I can't look it up, but I think 500ms was good enough. I use a shorter exposure for the "constant" dynamic readings you use to tweak the PJ, and longer exposures for more accurate readings when I actually sweep the IREs to measure the grayscale.

Point toward screen or PJ: supposedly sensors can work either way, but with my Spyder at least, it was *NOT* repeatable pointing at the projector. Readings changed based on distance, angle, etc. So I always point it at the screen. That means you get less light into the sensor but HCFR can handle that with longer exposures.

LCD vs CRT, filter on or off -- I honestly don't remember, and barely understood it when I did. I think I used CRT and filter off.

pfloydphanatic · Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Posts: 240

this may be a dumb question but how do you use a suction cup colorimeter with a crt projector? put it right on the tube face? and i guess you're using it with a HT computer to save the profiles?

garyfritz · Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12088 Location: Fort Collins, CO

No, you point the sensor at the screen (or PJ, but that didn't work well with my Spyder). Put it on a tripod or something like that.

You can use an HTPC to really fine-tune the tweaking, but you can usually get perfectly acceptable results just by adjusting the Bias and Gain on the projector.

tse · Joined: 03 May 2006 Posts: 1014 Location: Sweatbucket, Fl.

Get a large magnifying lens and focus the projector light on the sensor. Much lower light level can be measured. Compare color readings, with and without lens, at higher level as lens might change color slightly. Make a correction value if necessary.

Scott

GEBrown · Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 729 Location: Denver

Look in Measures/Sensor/Configure

Gino · Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject:

Kal - I believe its accurate to 30IRE, 20IRE and below fluctuate too much compared to other sensors

**kal** · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:04 am Post subject:

THanks guys! I've got it pointed at the screen right now and am getting pretty consistent readings no matter what the angle is at higher IRE's. I'll do some sweeps and compare it to what the Minolta CA-100 showed me 2 years ago (see here).

HCFR's really nice and easy to use. Been using S2Fly too to just take xyY raw readings when I want something simple.

EDIT: I'm getting really consistent readings as low as 10IRE using S2Fly and the Spyder2 sensor pointed at the screen, even if I change the angle a bit. I've got the read time set to 1000 (seems like 10 seconds).

Kal

Andrew Low · Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 28

Wow 10IRE readings are better than I've ever had stable. 30IRE was usually the end of the useful range for the Spyder2 for me - however, I'm not terribly patient and waiting for 10seconds is way beyond what I've ever tried.

Kal - care to document exactly how you've got HCFR setup?

Roo

**kal** · Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject:

SYC · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 269

Kal,
Did you compare the result between CA-100 and Spyder2? I compare mine with my friend's. They haven't the same result when I measure the primary colors.

kschmit2 · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:20 am Post subject:

Kal, I got a loaner Spyder3 Elite Studio here atm.

The sensor appears to be very accurate down into low IREs.

I'm not willing to buy it yet, though. I will wait until HCFR can be used with it, then give that a shot, and potentially decide to buy Calman as well.

Currently I have only used the Spyder3 to calibrate EVR in Vista. The PJ itself is still calibrated, but I never got around to calibrating Vista before. The results are extremely pleasing. Full fades to black, no highlight clipping, incredible shadow detail.

Calibrating Overlay of course doesn't work with the Spyder3 Elite software.

So, results so far are good, but we need better software support.

kschmit2 · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:

**kal** · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject:

**kal** · Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject:

kschmit2 · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:25 am Post subject:

Ohh, and another update:

so far the Spyder3 sensor offers no improvement over the Spyder2 sensor when calibrating phosphor based displays (Plasma and CRT).

Datacolor is working on that though, and they believe to have an updated DLL in the near future. It is apparently not a hardware problem.

**kal** · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject:

Thanks Kai. I thought the Spyder3 was supposed to be more sensitive at lower IREs, no?

Kal

kschmit2 · Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject:

I don't know the details of where they are _off_ so to speak wrt plasma and CRT atm.
The results I got using the Spyder3 are extremely pleasing though, with by far the best low APL detail I have ever had. I get no crushed blacks, no highlight clipping, perfect fades to black.

The software is still very buggy though imho.

E.g. I can't imagine the black background in this shot is not supposed to expand to cover the full screen: