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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | The biggest advantage the RS2 will have over your CRT is sharpness. If you are willing to "get your hands dirty" or hire someone to set it up well, you can get it looking close to the RS2 on most content. The RS2 will most likely be sharper on background details, but you can get the foreground looking close to as good. |
i'm going to disagree on this point simply because the OP is running the older 8000. That's a big step down from the new Marquee's. Lack of Blue Gamma tracking, contrast modulation, Dynamic Astig. and a significantly inferior video chain make it an entry level machine, on par with a Sony 1272 in most respects.
An 8500 or 9500 with a Moome HDMI card will rival the RS1 in many respects and still beat it in FFTB. |
I stand corrected, his post said 8000 and I thought "8110" so was only thinking the dyn astig was the difference. But you are correct. Ooops. 
How about this, you can upgrade to a CRT that will give the RS2 a run for its money for less than half the cost of the RS2. 
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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trailblazer
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Montreal,QC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Actually I have a Lumagen HDP processing my M8000, and it is quite sharp looking.
Over the weekend I watched Matrix Reloaded on Direct TV HBO HD channel 70.
And I must tell you I was blown away by the detail and sharpness of my M8000,the picture was breathtaking,
I mean I could see the pores on Lawrence Fishburne face, thats how good of a detail the M8000 projected over an 1080i feed.
I started to reconsider my move to replace the M8000 with the RS2!
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| trailblazer wrote: | Actually I have a Lumagen HDP processing my M8000, and it is quite sharp looking.
Over the weekend I watched Matrix Reloaded on Direct TV HBO HD channel 70.
And I must tell you I was blown away by the detail and sharpness of my M8000,the picture was breathtaking,
I mean I could see the pores on Lawrence Fishburne face, thats how good of a detail the M8000 projected over an 1080i feed.
I started to reconsider my move to replace the M8000 with the RS2! |
If you have an HDP and are running 1080i, you should try 1080i/72 or 1080i/96 to smooth out the pans.
Swapping out for something with P16 tubes (like a G70) would be much sharper.
As an FYI, foreground details tend to look sharp (close ups of faces, etc). Where you can really tell a difference in sharpness is background details.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | As an FYI, foreground details tend to look sharp (close ups of faces, etc). Where you can really tell a difference in sharpness is background details. |
That's an understatement. Guys with XGA digital projectors can get nice looking close-ups... Wide shots with tons of background detail - that takes a good machine to make all that look sharp.
That was by far the most striking difference between my 1271 and G70 when I was A-B'ing them... The backgrounds in wide shots - say, a desert scene in Cars for instance, or ocean waves in an aerial shot in Miami Vice - the details would just 'pop out' with tiny details when I'd switch to the G70.
SC
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | How about this, you can upgrade to a CRT that will give the RS2 a run for its money for less than half the cost of the RS2. |
I just hooked up a friend of mine with a nice 8500+color filtered lenses and even after he installs the $450. Moome HDMI card the whole kit will still be about 1/3rd the cost of an RS2.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | How about this, you can upgrade to a CRT that will give the RS2 a run for its money for less than half the cost of the RS2. |
I just hooked up a friend of mine with a nice 8500+color filtered lenses and even after he installs the $450. Moome HDMI card the whole kit will still be about 1/3rd the cost of an RS2. |
OP was concerned about 1080p/24 so I was also throwing in $1100 for a Lumagen HDP. But, OP seems to have one, so yeah, he could upgrade to a nicer 8" with HDMI/DVI input for <$2000 and have a kick ass set up.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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trailblazer
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Montreal,QC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:41 am Post subject: |
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I am using rgbhv into the lumagen with belden 1694 cables, so the connection is good.
I am looking into the 9500 as an upgrade to the m8000.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| trailblazer wrote: | I am using rgbhv into the lumagen with belden 1694 cables, so the connection is good.
I am looking into the 9500 as an upgrade to the m8000. |
Be careful of the bargain surplus 9500's out there. The last 3 out of 3 here had major problems with dud tubes, contaminated or leaky Glycol chambers, wrong lenses for home threatre, and also in need of the half-dozen service bulletins every older Marquee needs for stable performance. If your going 9500, I would look for one that's been fully serviced by a pro. As much as I hate sony products, for LC machines I would suggest a Sony G70 is a safer bet than a 9500 and a much smaller gamble/investment for 90% of the performance.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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So, is there some sort of general consensus regarding the G70 being better than, say, and XG1351? Tradeoff's?
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Trust no one. Absolutely no one. Advice of the board.
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Zebu Fellenz
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2567
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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G70 and XG 135LC should be about the same, the XG will be louder and harder for a newbie to setup but the picture should be very similar.
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wedge
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Location: B.C.,Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| trailblazer wrote: | Actually I have a Lumagen HDP processing my M8000, and it is quite sharp looking.
Over the weekend I watched Matrix Reloaded on Direct TV HBO HD channel 70.
And I must tell you I was blown away by the detail and sharpness of my M8000,the picture was breathtaking,
I mean I could see the pores on Lawrence Fishburne face, thats how good of a detail the M8000 projected over an 1080i feed.
I started to reconsider my move to replace the M8000 with the RS2! |
Curt came to the house here & calibrated my 8110 with my HDP a little over a year ago.Then I got a Barco Reality 909 which I kept for 1 month.
I then went to a RS1.
Quite frankly you would have to kill me to get rid of my RS1.It smokes the 8110 SSSSSOOOOOOOOO BBBBAAAADDDDDD.
The BArco 909=NO.But the 909 just did not fit me or the room.
I sold the 909 to Curt who then sold it to Atom & 2 days after Atom got it, it had a malfunction & has not been working since(& that was over a year ago).
So for me personally I have NO PROBLEM recommending a RS1 or RS 2 to anybody.
Flame away:D
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Wedge!
Were all projectors colour calibrated to have a flat grey scale? The oversaturation of the RS1 primaries didn't bother you? (They can't be adjusted other than with a high end scaler like the new Radiance from what I understand).
I'm a colour calibration kick recently and am shocked at how off the primaries are for 95% of digital projectors out there (primaries are something you cannot adjust). This makes the colours look day-glo neon. Some people like it but it's far from accurate.
| trailblazer wrote: | Over the weekend I watched Matrix Reloaded on Direct TV HBO HD channel 70.
And I must tell you I was blown away by the detail and sharpness of my M8000,the picture was breathtaking,
I mean I could see the pores on Lawrence Fishburne face, thats how good of a detail the M8000 projected over an 1080i feed. |
To be perfectly honest however - you'll see those pores on the SD-DVD version of the Matrix on a 27" TV. Those are some pretty damned big pores he has. 
Kal
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scottap
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Palo Alto, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Zebu Fellenz wrote: | | G70 and XG 135LC should be about the same, the XG will be louder and harder for a newbie to setup but the picture should be very similar. |
I'd disagree. I've had a G70 and an XG. I think they're both equally loud and when I measured them with a sound meter they were within a db or two of each other. The XG is trickier to setup well because there are just so many setup options and variables, but there were also times where I wished the the G70 offered more control. Simlar to a PG, the G70 seems to be less forgiving if there are any errors in the mechanical setup.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: |
I'm a colour calibration kick recently and am shocked at how off the primaries are for 95% of digital projectors out there (primaries are something you cannot adjust). |
Not quite. You can adjust them on digitals with good CMS systems. What you can't get on most digitals is all the primaries and secondaries accurate.
For instance, take an Optoma HD7100 (which is better than an average digital for colors and CMS). YOu can get a pretty good grayscale, but as far as colors you have to choose:
1) All primaries and secondaries good, except the green tending pretty far to yellow, or
2) Red and green primaries slighty oversaturated.
Only digital I've seen that can truly do the colors right is the Kane Samsungs.
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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wedge
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Location: B.C.,Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | kal wrote: |
I'm a colour calibration kick recently and am shocked at how off the primaries are for 95% of digital projectors out there (primaries are something you cannot adjust). |
Not quite. You can adjust them on digitals with good CMS systems. What you can't get on most digitals is all the primaries and secondaries accurate.
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Now you have brought up the biggest problem I have had with my system(CRT & RS1).
There are NO people in my area that has REAL HANDS ON experience with either calibrating or setting up the HDP for correct gamma or CMS.(CMS or correct colours etc,[HDP does not have correct CMS,you need Radiance apparently]I think you understand what I am trying to say).
I phoned Ken Whitcomb about him coming here for the Barco 909,& talked to him for a few minutes & he said he would get back to me but never did.I figured from understanding what Cliff & some others got charged from Ken,plus the fact that he would have to travel here to Vancouver Island, that it would cost me Aproxx $3000.00
When that figure was factored into what the 909 had already cost me,with the noise & the size of the unit, then the Wife started a major sh*t storm on my head.
Well when I got the RS1 there was a person on A site that had almost the exact same size of room with the same size of screen & he bought a RS1.He had it calibrated from ??? but he did tell me the numbers he used for colour,saturation,contrast etc.I just used those numbers & it ended up looking a lot better then what I had set it up myself.
I have a HDP just sitting here collecting dust,but like I said NO ONE who knows how the hell to properly use it.
The RS1 as a whole for me is wonderful.I think the colours are great for me,I love the sharp corners & the detail I get.
When I tried HD dvd on the 8110 there was only a SLIGHT difference between that & SD dvd.With the RS1 it is now hard to watch SD dvd,compared to HD.
The biggest thing for me now is that I now WATCH MOVIES.I no longer wish ,that was tweaked,this corner could be better,look at that halo on the desert sand dune,I just watch movies.Yahoo.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| scottap wrote: | | The XG is trickier to setup well because there are just so many setup options and variables, but there were also times where I wished the the G70 offered more control. Simlar to a PG, the G70 seems to be less forgiving if there are any errors in the mechanical setup. |
I agree with this statement. It's nice having so much control over the image my first projector was a Barco Graphics 800 great picture but did lack some of the adjustment the NEC has.
Mike
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| wedge wrote: | | Person99 wrote: | | kal wrote: |
I'm a colour calibration kick recently and am shocked at how off the primaries are for 95% of digital projectors out there (primaries are something you cannot adjust). |
Not quite. You can adjust them on digitals with good CMS systems. What you can't get on most digitals is all the primaries and secondaries accurate.
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Now you have brought up the biggest problem I have had with my system(CRT & RS1).
There are NO people in my area that has REAL HANDS ON experience with either calibrating or setting up the HDP for correct gamma or CMS.(CMS or correct colours etc,[HDP does not have correct CMS,you need Radiance apparently]I think you understand what I am trying to say). |
Yes, the HDP has a basic CMS (what the RS1 should have but doesn't). It can help the RS1, but can't fix the mess that is its colors.
| wedge wrote: | it would cost me Aproxx $3000.00
When that figure was factored into what the 909 had already cost me,with the noise & the size of the unit, then the Wife started a major sh*t storm on my head. |
You could have bought good enough equipment and learned how to do it and saved $2700. But if you didn't want to, that is cool.
| wedge wrote: | | I have a HDP just sitting here collecting dust,but like I said NO ONE who knows how the hell to properly use it. |
I do, you could to if you would spend some time to learn.
| wedge wrote: | | The RS1 as a whole for me is wonderful.I think the colours are great for me,I love the sharp corners & the detail I get. |
If you can stand the colors, go for it. I for one hate the fact that people look like cartoons because their fleshtones are all wrong. Makes me think of a guy on site A who "upgraded" his 1400x788 1250:1 CR DLA-HX2U for an RS1. After it was all calibrated (the best it could be) his wife said she liked the old PJ better because it looked so much better, the RS1 didn't look "right". He too thought the "upgrade" was a mistake. I can totally understand where they are coming from.
| wedge wrote: | | When I tried HD dvd on the 8110 there was only a SLIGHT difference between that & SD dvd.With the RS1 it is now hard to watch SD dvd,compared to HD. |
1) You didn't have it set up right. that is fine, you may be incapable of that and needed to hire someone and was not worth it, but you should not judge a CRTs performance by your poorly set up one.
2) 8" AC marquees are not that great. By todays standards, that is a $1000 projector. So, you are comparing a <$1000 projector to a $3000+ projector. Gee, I hope the $3000+ one is better. Kind of a stupid and pointless comparison don't you think? You think a Porsche 911 beats a Honda Civic? Compare a good 8" LC with the RS1 and you'll find the 8" LC is superior and <$2000!
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Dave
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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wedge
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Location: B.C.,Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:14 am Post subject: |
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I paid $3500.00 for my 8110 from Curt.He did the setup but does not have the gear to colour analyze the HDP.
But you know what.I DON'T GIVE A sh*t ANYMORE.
I now have a system in which I watch movies.I don't care about anything else.
I'm happy with what I have & that is what counts.
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. End result is if you're happy, nothing else really matters does it. Everyone has different levels of expectations.
| Person99 wrote: | | kal wrote: |
I'm a colour calibration kick recently and am shocked at how off the primaries are for 95% of digital projectors out there (primaries are something you cannot adjust). |
Not quite. You can adjust them on digitals with good CMS systems. What you can't get on most digitals is all the primaries and secondaries accurate. |
Ok yes - I should have said that you can't adjust primaries/secondaries on most digitals as most do not have an adequate CMS. I'm curious how far outside the triangle they are in most digital projectors ... I've never really looked into it. I measured mine last last on my Zenith 1200:
This is colour filtered projector so I doubt it can get much better.
Kal
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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