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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Marquee Mod questions |
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To start, I've been irritated that the test patterns aren't as sharp as I'd expect. I'm using HD8s on about a 110" screen, which may be the problem, that or a loose nut between the projector an RPS Mirror.
I pulled most of the boards, and all of them seem to be the latest and greatest in an 8500, short of what you'd expect in an Ultra(if anyone has some of those for sale, I may be interested).
I do want to either upgrade the lenses, but figure I need to take care of a few other issues first.
I've been going through MP's mod list, and have come up with a few questions.
1. A lot of the mods seem to be based on boards older then mine, and many are if the capacitor is leaking..... Are they highly recommended, or more, if there is a problem?
They make capacitors for all sorts of stuff. I've seen some somewhat expensive high end audio ones. Is there any recommendation what kind should be used? It seems like I can spend $10 to $100 on a capacitor with the same specs, and wonder if it will get me anything.
2. LVPS: If all of my boards are of the latest and greatest, do I even need to do this? In the picture it shows R223 removed. Is that the faulty piece? All of the other mods make sense, but I don't really follow what I am popping off and replacing, and why I need to cut the trace and add the resistor. Seems like something needs to be added back at R223, otherwise no circuit will be completed. Of course, I have no problem soldering small stuff, but I'm not terribly experienced in this area.
3. Sync Mod: Seems like a if you need it, you'd know it. Am I correct?
4. What does replacing the mickey mouse resistors in the Vertical Deflection Module and Convergence board do for the projector? If the original board had 1 ohm fusables, and the later boards used two .5 ohms, would you replace them with a 1 ohm or two .5 ohm resistors?
5. The Video Chain hot rodding - What is meant by enhanced performance? Will the picture be sharper, color better, less noise, etc? What would be considered a "high quality 100 vdc poly" capacitor. I understand what they do, however I don't know what makes a high quality cap. If anyone has an example/place to buy one, that would be great if I decide to do it.
Any comments are welcome. If anyone has any suggestions on the focus issue, or how sharp they should be, I'd greatly appreciate it. When I finish setup, it looks better then everything at Best Buy, but that's probably like comparing a drunk Da Vinci to a 4 year old with finger paints. I'd like to make sure I am getting the most out of the focus before I start throwing money at new lenses.
-Mike
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Marquee Mod questions |
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| Angus_rg wrote: |
1. A lot of the mods seem to be based on boards older then mine, and many are if the capacitor is leaking..... Are they highly recommended, or more, if there is a problem? |
a good portion of that thread is dedicated to the older 8000's/9000 and doesn't apply to your 8500.
| Angus_rg wrote: | | They make capacitors for all sorts of stuff. I've seen some somewhat expensive high end audio ones. Is there any recommendation what kind should be used? It seems like I can spend $10 to $100 on a capacitor with the same specs, and wonder if it will get me anything. |
a good cap is a Nichikon with the 105C temp rating, about 50 cents a piece. A lot of the Audiophile stuff is not only foobar but might not survive very long in the demanding application of of a CRT projector.
| Angus_rg wrote: | | 4. What does replacing the mickey mouse resistors in the Vertical Deflection Module and Convergence board do for the projector? If the original board had 1 ohm fusables, and the later boards used two .5 ohms, would you replace them with a 1 ohm or two .5 ohm resistors? |
I have never heard of replacing the resistors but it wouldn't hurt to recap them. A cap doesn't have to be visually leaking to be out of spec. The ones on the neck-board are the worst because they were underated for their voltage draw.
| Angus_rg wrote: | | 5. The Video Chain hot rodding - What is meant by enhanced performance? Will the picture be sharper, color better, less noise, etc? Any comments are welcome. -Mike |
yes you get all those things if you can hire MP to do it for you. The mods are his intellectualy property and not found in the maintenance thread.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
I would divide all of these things into two categories; the Maintenance items, with cleaning, replacing caps and replacing resistors, as keeping up with wear and tear. Some components will degrade with heat and time, so you will hear a lot about 105^C caps being recommended.
The MP VIM and neckboard mods done by Mike Parker are truly redesigns of those boards and will improve dynamic range and 3dimensionality of high quality sources. Additional power filtering and faster video chips will let you see deeper into the dark parts of the image; this is very noticeable on hi-def concert material as well as movies. Mike has hundreds of hours of time in developing these improvements, and so they will not be published for DIY, they are available for purchase as board swaps.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Marquee Mod questions |
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| Angus_rg wrote: | | 5. The Video Chain hot rodding - What is meant by enhanced performance? Will the picture be sharper, color better, less noise, etc? Any comments are welcome. -Mike |
yes you get all those things if you can hire MP to do it for you. The mods are his intellectualy property and not found in the maintenance thread.[/quote]
Damn intelectual property and people trying to make money. 
Actually I'm talking about the MQ maintenance thread that I believe was written by MP, but posted on Curt's site:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Marquee_Maintenance11.shtm
Seems pretty straightforward. I'd just like to know what it will get me. I've got better then average eyesight, so a slight increase is probably pretty good for me and probably worth it, but if it isn't spectacular by my standards, I may put it off.
I'm at the point where I almost feel like I need to figure out where the focus is gone wrong, or if it is just my anality, because if something is wrong, I oughta fix that so I can appreciate the improvement. I'd say chances are slightly higher I'm doing a poor job with the focus, if not both being the issue.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: |
The MP VIM and neckboard mods done by Mike Parker are truly redesigns of those boards and will improve dynamic range and 3dimensionality of high quality sources. Additional power filtering and faster video chips will let you see deeper into the dark parts of the image; this is very noticeable on hi-def concert material as well as movies. Mike has hundreds of hours of time in developing these improvements, and so they will not be published for DIY, they are available for purchase as board swaps.
. |
I was thinking more of this stuff here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/Marquee_Maintenance9.shtm
I'd probably be more then happy to dig into some of the proprietary stuff, once I feel like I have my system setup properly and all of the little stuff taken care of. I feel like a big problem is nothing on that list that isn't related to a old board being done, and my ignorance, which really isn't bliss.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: Re: Marquee Mod questions |
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| Angus_rg wrote: | To start, I've been irritated that the test patterns aren't as sharp as I'd expect. I'm using HD8s on about a 110" screen, which may be the problem, that or a loose nut between the projector an RPS Mirror.
-Mike |
Hello
Describe your entire setup; is it rear/mirror? What screen width? What screeen material? What Contrast value are you running? What is your projector H Size value? If it is much below 90 then your throw distance may be too far.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have a nagging feeling that this rear projection set-up is the culprit here, either that or an electronic problem but unlikely without very high chassis hours on an un-serviced machine. Mike you should post your location and see if there's someone near-by with a typical front projection set-up and good HD source on an 8" machine you can see for comparison.
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | I have a nagging feeling that this rear projection set-up is the culprit here, either that or an electronic problem but unlikely without very high chassis hours on an un-serviced machine. Mike you should post your location and see if there's someone near-by with a typical front projection set-up and good HD source on an 8" machine you can see for comparison. |
Could be; and if it is anything less than a top quality first surface mirror then focus issues are expected.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: Marquee Mod questions |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | | Angus_rg wrote: | To start, I've been irritated that the test patterns aren't as sharp as I'd expect. I'm using HD8s on about a 110" screen, which may be the problem, that or a loose nut between the projector an RPS Mirror.
-Mike |
Hello
Describe your entire setup; is it rear/mirror? What screen width? What screeen material? What Contrast value are you running? What is your projector H Size value? If it is much below 90 then your throw distance may be too far.
. |
The RPS system is a draper system very similar to this, minus the attached screen:
http://www.mountsandmore.com/asp/show_detail.asp?sku=DR1272&PiID=11979&refid=FR2-DR1272_11979
I don't know if they go together, but the guy I got it from owned a shop and got it left over from a business reconfig, and for the price, was practically giving it away(I probably overpaid for the CRT by 100-200 bucks). It seems to be sturdy enough, but the projector could be mounted a little higher, as the bottom of the picture barely makes it over the top of the image(probably an inch of softness at the bottom of the screen as a result) That I'm not overly concerned about, since I bet a ceiling mount or some makeshift device could be used to space it.
The screen I got from here:
http://www.rosebrand.com/product703/Projection-Screen-and-Rear-Projection-Screen.aspx?cid=218&idx=1570&tid=1&info=Screen%2bby%2bthe%2bYard
I believe I went with Gray not black. Probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference since I have the same issue when I hold a notecard right up against it. I'm up for suggestions on better stuff, as I'd like a more durable screen, but I figured, for $60 bucks, it was a good screen to see if RP held up to front. I'd like to have a stiff screen once my basement is done, even if it was something like that with a large piece of plexiglass in front. I'm not real picky about what it is as long as it looks good(I'll sacrafice a little clarity to not deal with shadows and skewed colors when people get up), just don't want to spend thousands + on it. That screen goo stuff on glass/plexi sounds great, but I haven't heard much about it, and the little I had wasn't great.
The width is about 8ft(110 diag), but I'd be fine if you thought I should make it bigger. It was going to be 103"(120 diag), but I'd have to tripple the price of the experimental material, which seemed kind of silly if it sucked. If it didn't, and I was desperate for larger, no big deal, I'd tear the wall down. May do that anyway just so I can have more space in the back room to move the RPS system around.
As for the other stuff, I can't verify since the PJ is apart, but it the contrast is at the default. The H value is about as high as it will go without blowing the tubes out, since I don't have the Anamorphic squeeze mod in yet.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Re: Marquee Mod questions |
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| Angus_rg wrote: | snipped...........
I don't know if they go together, but the guy I got it from owned a shop and got it left over from a business reconfig, and for the price, was practically giving it away(I probably overpaid for the CRT by 100-200 bucks). It seems to be sturdy enough, but the projector could be mounted a little higher, as the bottom of the picture barely makes it over the top of the image(probably an inch of softness at the bottom of the screen as a result) That I'm not overly concerned about, since I bet a ceiling mount or some makeshift device could be used to space it.
snipped..........
As for the other stuff, I can't verify since the PJ is apart, but it the contrast is at the default. The H value is about as high as it will go without blowing the tubes out, since I don't have the Anamorphic squeeze mod in yet. |
You may be having focus issues do to lens flapping ( Scheimpflug ) OR the projecotor is, as you say, not mounted high enough it could also have the wrong angle to the mirror.
| Angus_rg wrote: | | I'm using HD8s on about a 110" screen, which may be the problem, that or a loose nut between the projector an RPS Mirror |
Also your HD8's may not focus properly in this instance. You may need shorter focusing lenses.
Are there bolt's on the back of the mirror to 'warp' it for fine tuning the focus?
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CRT.
HD done right!
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4409
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Hello
Is it a glass mirror? Mylar is crap........
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tim in Phoenix wrote: | Hello
Is it a glass mirror? Mylar is crap........
. |
Yeah, its glass. Definitely some expensive optical mirror stuff, though I can't say I'm an expert in that area.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Marquee Mod questions |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: |
You may be having focus issues do to lens flapping ( Scheimpflug ) OR the projecotor is, as you say, not mounted high enough it could also have the wrong angle to the mirror.
| Angus_rg wrote: | | I'm using HD8s on about a 110" screen, which may be the problem, that or a loose nut between the projector an RPS Mirror |
Also your HD8's may not focus properly in this instance. You may need shorter focusing lenses.
Are there bolt's on the back of the mirror to 'warp' it for fine tuning the focus? |
Scheimpfug would make sense, as I think I am very Scheimpflug-challenged at this point. There isn't anything on the mirror to aid in focus.
Because of how light reflection works, the distance should be the same as a Front projection system. If you keep the projector the same hight and angle, you should be able to spin it the distance from the center of the image strikes the mirror 180 degrees, you should get the same picture, without any "effects" that the mirror may induce like light loss and picture reversals. Keystone correction and all other geometric corrections should be the same as well. Of course, I'm a novice with these things and don't even play a mathematician on TV, so I'm really just talking out of my behind.
What size screen range produces the best image on an HD8? Not that I plan on keeping them, but I can at least use it to help aid in judging my focal abilities or lack there off.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Mike you should post your location and see if there's someone near-by with a typical front projection set-up and good HD source on an 8" machine you can see for comparison. |
Glad I re-read that. Missed it the first time. I'm in Maryland, halfway between B-more and DC. Even if they don't have a Marquee, I'd be more then happy to talk shop over some beers and or see some other setups.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I think Mike Parker and Mark Haflich are near you. Perfect people you should meet.
Athanasios |
Yeah, Mike Parker is near me, which I figure is a blessing if he is available for modding and I'm in the market in the future. I'd rather take the time to drive my parts to him rather then trust the mail or UPS.
If anyone can tell me how sharp I should expect to be able to get the focus w/ a vanilla MQ 8500, I'd greatly appreciate it. I've heard "razor" sharp for 9", but does that include the test patterns? I can get it so there are no flares, but it just is soft around the edges regardless of the refresh rates.
-Mike
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Angus_rg wrote: | | If anyone can tell me how sharp I should expect to be able to get the focus w/ a vanilla MQ 8500, I'd greatly appreciate it. -Mike |
how the heck do you answer that?  OK, I'll give a it a try " It should be be pretty sharp but not enough to poke your eye out." 
You really need to either see someone elses or have someone with an experienced eye check out yours. BTW, if your expecting digital 1080P sharpness it's not going to happen and not what CRT excels at. However I have never felt my 8500's sharpnes was lacking when showing an HD pic, not even compared to the RS1.
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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If I got digital sharp out of it, it be in the bottom of a river.
Assuming we view things the same, I'm not getting poke your eye out sharp or butter knife sharp. I'm sort of somewhere in the middle, a little closer to the butter knife side. Maybe a dull steak knife.
I probably sound like a broken record broken record, but the picture blows away anything I've ever seen, including a 45k Runco DLP I saw a few weeks ago. Of course, I've only compared apples to oranges.
I know I can do a better job with the finer points, like lens flapping and convergence, but the mechanical focus seems like something I should be able to get right without much experience. It seems kind of weird because the digital focus and the astig are as good as it gets by default.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Angus_rg wrote: | | If anyone can tell me how sharp I should expect to be able to get the focus w/ a vanilla MQ 8500, I'd greatly appreciate it. -Mike |
how the heck do you answer that? OK, I'll give a it a try " It should be be pretty sharp but not enough to poke your eye out."
You really need to either see someone elses or have someone with an experienced eye check out yours. BTW, if your expecting digital 1080P sharpness it's not going to happen and not what CRT excels at. However I have never felt my 8500's sharpnes was lacking when showing an HD pic, not even compared to the RS1. |
Yeah there's alot you need to do to even begin to question your 8500's future abilities or assess it's electronic health. I'd talk to Joust (Barry) here on the forum and get a set of 144/145 lenses to start with (they have a slightly shorter TD), then start from square one and do a good mechanical alignment, then do a good magnetics alignment, do the anamorphic mod if needed, definately do the LVPS mod and get the heater voltage to 6.35 at connector P14 (measured with the pj running) even if it measures OK, and after that, practice practice practice.
Ask anyone here, regardless of projector brand/model they own, what the biggest contributor to a great image has been and they will most probably answer...experience.
Eventually, regardless of how many of the Marquee Maintenance upgrades you do that are public domain, you'll have to either spend some money to get Mike's (Parker) Mods or a transcoder with gamma capabilities (or both) to get the very best it has to offer. Or, just accept it the way it is and enjoy it.
I was careful early on not to become obsessed like others I'd heard on the forums I frequented. Listening to them they just didn't seem to be having any fun at all. I taught myself, (it took practice!), not to pick apart the image while watching a movie. I'm alot happier for it. Some guys are happiest upgrading components and constantly tweeking whereas I and those like myself are happiest getting it set up and sitting on our asses.
Good luck! It's an interesting rig that's for sure. (Over $7K new!!) 
Greg
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Angus_rg
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 339
Location: A planet far, far away..... Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="JustGreg"][quote="draganm"] | Angus_rg wrote: |
I was careful early on not to become obsessed like others I'd heard on the forums I frequented. Listening to them they just didn't seem to be having any fun at all. I taught myself, (it took practice!), not to pick apart the image while watching a movie. I'm alot happier for it. Some guys are happiest upgrading components and constantly tweeking whereas I and those like myself are happiest getting it set up and sitting on our asses.
Greg |
To be honest, I'm not so certain I want to get into the whole supping arena with thing like MP mods. I've got plent of stuff I can do before making that decision. Right now it seems silly with me sporting my HD8's. I intend to upgrade the lenses, but want to make sure I appreciate the difference.
I can nit pick the crap out of my screen, but usally, within 10 minutes into the movie, I don't care too much. I'm really just curious if I need to work on my abilities, or be happy with it as is. I've noticed my abilities have improved drastically in the 9 months I've had it, and I expect they will continue. Considering everything going on in my basement, I expect I'll be doing many more setups, and will get better with each.
I am very happy with the picture and the reactions to other viewers, but I'm not happy with my skills yet, I don't want to beat myself up over something that isn't working properly and I'm not doing a really poor job with. If I could be happier without killing my wallet, I want to explore it, and that includes me accepting that I'm not doing anything wrong/or a poor job.
-Mike
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