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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: Going out with a BANG |
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How about that, a oil heat guy going gas. The writing's on the wall. At $4.00 per gallon, I'm throwing in the towel. I had yesterday off from work and to much time to think. Yesterday I bought me a Baxi Luna 99% eff. condensing gas boiler.
It's a european boiler that is direct vent wall hung unit that makes domestic hot water and provides heat for the house. It is completly self contained. It works with both natural and LP gas. To hook it up you simply connect both hot and cold domestic water pipes to it, both the supply and return heat pipes, a boiler water feeder line a t-stat wire from the end switch of your existing zoned system ( or thermostat if it's a single zone system), gas and power. Shipping weight is 101 lbs. So if you hear a loud bang in the middle of the night and notice I've not posted for a while, that's it. 
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A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1276
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure N-gas is the way to go. The amount of gas we're using these days our supplies aren't going to last too much longer.
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Walter
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| WTS wrote: | | I'm not sure N-gas is the way to go. The amount of gas we're using these days our supplies aren't going to last too much longer. |
I'm not worried. The oil system stays. I'm going to build a manifold so that I can switch back and forth as needed.
The fun starts tonight
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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I just paid 4.06 per gallon for oil. There's NO Friggin WAY i can pay that for a full winter.
I'll burn newspaper and trash to keep warm. 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | I just paid 4.06 per gallon for oil. There's NO Friggin WAY i can pay that for a full winter.
I'll burn newspaper and trash to keep warm. |
I heard of a guy who filled out as many of the free mailers and gets bags and bags of junk mail each day and he use's that to burn. He has one of the those paper log rollers and binders. His mail man hates him but he has to deliver the mail. 
Athanasios
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Ile
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1491
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Here heating oil is $4.73 per gallon.
My house have district heating (they use peat), it's tab cheaper.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Coal here (upstate NY - cold). Somewhere under $400 for the year. Woot! I have to dust a bit more, though, and it's a pain in the ass to keep going. Still, easily worth it; god knows what I'd have paid for gas/oil heat this year.
Really nice heat, too. One evening it went down to -5f and I didn't notice until I felt the cold air coming off the windows and look at the thermometer...
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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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No heat needed here in Los Angeles. They just rape us in Gasoline. Everything's going up, up, up.... except salaries. Where do YOU guys think this will all end?
Back to the dark ages?
Marc
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I love how the Oil Companies bring up the cost of crude oil....Yet who makes the profits from the high cost of crude?
Yes...some oil comes from other countries but not all.
Mike
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Coal??!?! I didn't know anybody still heated with coal. Wow. So, is that forced-air, but just coal-fired? Do you have to friggin' shovel it in, then? How often? Wow, I had no idea.
My natural gas bills for our heating season (Nov-Mar) will be under $500. That's for forced-air heat and our domestic hot water for a ~2400 sqft house (including basement) - 2 adults/2 little kids. LOTS of laundry. I'm not complaining.
When we built our home 4 years ago, we built with 2x6 exterior walls, Icynene insulation, good windows and a high-efficiency furnace. I would have loved to go all in-floor radiant, but it was way out of our budget.
SC
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Tinman wrote: | No heat needed here in Los Angeles. They just rape us in Gasoline. Everything's going up, up, up.... except salaries. Where do YOU guys think this will all end?
Back to the dark ages?
Marc |
Probably in a gradual alteration in expectations about personal transportation. They manage to get along with $6/gallon in europe, and it's not the dark ages there. Economies are pretty resilient, in general, even if there are periods of discomfort during transitions.
The fall of Rome, for example, sucked, but things were much more heavily dependent on a very few individuals then, and there was too great a disparity between Rome and the Goths (No, not that kind. As the shirt goes, "If you're really a Goth, where were you when we sacked Rome?"). Rome grew in an unsustainable fashion, like a company that expands too fast and goes bankrupt even though it's doing huge business.
So I think the situation is different now. Africa is the major large population base with an extremely different living standard than the rest of the world (China and India to some extent, but not really given the value they add to the world economy), and Africa is unlikely to sack Los Angeles any time soon. Although, I have to say, it would be pretty funny if they did.
Anyway... people are tough. And even the bastards at the top running Exxon and Siemens and Sony won't prosper if the whole economy goes to hell, so they're unlikely to continue a path that will cause that - at least if they see it coming within their lifetimes. I guess that's one problem with having old dudes run big companies! 
I don't think it's going to be a big huge explosion. Standards of living may change gradually, and certain segments of the population will take a hell of a beating as the transition occurs, but I don't think we'll end up with an equivalent of post-Roman Europe.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Coal??!?! I didn't know anybody still heated with coal. Wow. So, is that forced-air, but just coal-fired? Do you have to friggin' shovel it in, then? How often? Wow, I had no idea.
My natural gas bills for our heating season (Nov-Mar) will be under $500. That's for forced-air heat and our domestic hot water for a ~2400 sqft house (including basement) - 2 adults/2 little kids. LOTS of laundry. I'm not complaining.
When we built our home 4 years ago, we built with 2x6 exterior walls, Icynene insulation, good windows and a high-efficiency furnace. I would have loved to go all in-floor radiant, but it was way out of our budget.
SC |
Nope - just a plain old coal stove. I don't shovel it in; I pour it in.  It's cleaning it that makes the dust; aside from that it's just a big hot thing in the middle of the room.
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| emdawgz1 wrote: | I just paid 4.06 per gallon for oil. There's NO Friggin WAY i can pay that for a full winter.
I'll burn newspaper and trash to keep warm. |
unless you have a very efficient sealed woodstove this is not a safe way to heat-you will end up with a chimney fire.
I burn wood in a modern high efficiency wood stove.I cut it locally,save on a gym membership by hauling and splitting my own, and during the weekends and evenings I do not find it any trouble to start a fire and add wood a few times during the day/evening. The wood stove EASILY knocks 40% off my gas bill,and in the shoulder heating seasons it takes almost 100% of the load. Even if I were to buy seasoned wood it would still be far cheaper than gas. On the down side I have noticed more fine dust in the house and change the furnace filters more often. I have easy roof access to my chimney so I clean it every 6 weeks or so during the heating season, and because my house is older it "grandfathers" in under local woodburning bylaws.those few days in the winter when the local air quality drops due to poor venting, I turn up the furnace....but I sure miss the fire when I am working down in the basement shop 
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Heywood Jablome
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 1548
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | Coal??!?! I didn't know anybody still heated with coal. Wow. So, is that forced-air, but just coal-fired? Do you have to friggin' shovel it in, then? How often? Wow, I had no idea.
My natural gas bills for our heating season (Nov-Mar) will be under $500. That's for forced-air heat and our domestic hot water for a ~2400 sqft house (including basement) - 2 adults/2 little kids. LOTS of laundry. I'm not complaining.
When we built our home 4 years ago, we built with 2x6 exterior walls, Icynene insulation, good windows and a high-efficiency furnace. I would have loved to go all in-floor radiant, but it was way out of our budget.
SC |
A damn good friend of mine built a VERY nice retirement home in New Hampshire, in a town so small that he and his wife made a percentage point increase in the population (literally!)
Dual-wall construction with 2x4 walls, studs staggered on 24" centers, about 8" apart. Sheathing on the outside of the outer studs, sheetrock on the inside of the inner studs, LOTS of insulation in between...
Fiberglass batting insulation in the outer bays, kraft faced in the inner bays, tyvec'd outside and additional vapor barrior on the inside.
He's an engineer and had to get a code variance for the 24" versus 16" centers.
He invested similarly in the most efficient possible doors, windows, and root insulation... The 3 season room (pictured below) with a 35' glass gable wall is heated with a little wood stove: at -23F outside the temp in that room never fell below 60.
GREAT home to visit, with good people... Only problem: NO INTERNET ACCESS! 
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"Those countries which lag behind in industry, in the application of mechanics and technical chemistry, in the careful selection and utilization of natural products, where the respect for such activities does not permeate all classes of society, will unfailingly decline in prosperity. They will sink faster when neighbor states, with an energetic exchange between science and industry, go forward with renewed vitality."
-- Baron Alexander von Humboldt: 1769-1859
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| jask wrote: | | emdawgz1 wrote: | I just paid 4.06 per gallon for oil. There's NO Friggin WAY i can pay that for a full winter.
I'll burn newspaper and trash to keep warm. |
unless you have a very efficient sealed woodstove this is not a safe way to heat-you will end up with a chimney fire.
I burn wood in a modern high efficiency wood stove.I cut it locally,save on a gym membership by hauling and splitting my own, and during the weekends and evenings I do not find it any trouble to start a fire and add wood a few times during the day/evening. The wood stove EASILY knocks 40% off my gas bill,and in the shoulder heating seasons it takes almost 100% of the load. Even if I were to buy seasoned wood it would still be far cheaper than gas. On the down side I have noticed more fine dust in the house and change the furnace filters more often. I have easy roof access to my chimney so I clean it every 6 weeks or so during the heating season, and because my house is older it "grandfathers" in under local woodburning bylaws.those few days in the winter when the local air quality drops due to poor venting, I turn up the furnace....but I sure miss the fire when I am working down in the basement shop |
Dude, i was being facetious... but thanks for the lookout.
I'm looking to buy a Wood burner for my new crib. Like this...
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Heywood Jablome wrote: | A damn good friend of mine built a VERY nice retirement home in New Hampshire, in a town so small that he and his wife made a percentage point increase in the population (literally!)
Dual-wall construction with 2x4 walls, studs staggered on 24" centers, about 8" apart. Sheathing on the outside of the outer studs, sheetrock on the inside of the inner studs, LOTS of insulation in between...
Fiberglass batting insulation in the outer bays, kraft faced in the inner bays, tyvec'd outside and additional vapor barrior on the inside.
He's an engineer and had to get a code variance for the 24" versus 16" centers.
He invested similarly in the most efficient possible doors, windows, and root insulation... The 3 season room (pictured below) with a 35' glass gable wall is heated with a little wood stove: at -23F outside the temp in that room never fell below 60.
GREAT home to visit, with good people... Only problem: NO INTERNET ACCESS! |
My garage is like that. Below the house...I love it, getting into a nice toasty warm car in the morning it great. I only have one small heat duct in the garage that is shut off. Nice and cool in the summer too. Another plus is neither of the Corvettes see extreme temps.
Mike
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have solar hot water panels all over my roof. One heats domestic hot water, one panel heats the slab in my basement and two panels heat the ceiling/floor. Never really gets cold enough to turn on the gas heat. My gas bill is like $5.00 a month, thats from the dryer, stove and I hear my water heater go on once in a great while. The pilot light in the water heater is probably most of the expense, running 24/7.
Even though my electrical portion of the bill is like only $35.00 a month, I'm looking into Photovoltaics.
Right now I'm trying to figure out a solution for all the Ghost loads (standby power), it's probably like 2.5 KW a day.
Deron.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| deronmoped wrote: | | I have solar hot water panels all over my roof. One heats domestic hot water, one panel heats the slab in my basement and two panels heat the ceiling/floor. Never really gets cold enough to turn on the gas heat. |
You southern californians and your constant sun. You suck.
I would love to use solar or wind, but I just don't see it happening any time soon. PV solar is too damn expensive and isn't really practical in my part of the country anyway (though I do have a nice roof for it). Wind generators are just too damn expensive. 10-15 year ROI just doesn't make sense! I don't see why somebody can't make some lower-priced equipment - something that can be mass-produced to get the price points down. For instance, I could justify a $2500 expense if I could see the ROI in 5 years.
Can't wait for the ROI to get better on the alternatives because I'd love to get into it. If it doesn't change by the alternatives' prices falling, then maybe the equation will change because the traditional fuels get much more expensive. 
SC
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Yay Deron!!
I'm getting a 1KW PV array for $1k. They do 50 houses in your neighbourhood at once = economies of scale.
Should be installed by June.
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