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MYoung
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 369
Location: Madison, WI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: Toshiba Talks HD DVD and Spews BS about Upconverting |
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http://www.electronichouse.com/article/toshiba_talks_hd_dvd/
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(Toshiba) will still offer DVD, however—just not high-def. Instead, Toshiba will focus on the art of upconverting. “And we’re going to improve this even more, so that consumers won’t be able to tell the difference from HD DVD images,” Nishida said. “The players would be much cheaper than Blu-ray players too. Next-generation DVD players are in a much weaker position than when standard DVD players were first introduced.”
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Alright, I defended Toshiba and HD DVD, but that's just a load of BS. Garbage in, garbage out. You cannot get HD out of SD. Toshiba, don't give me this "art of upconverting" BS! While they're at it why don't they make a Video CD upconverter to get HD out of Video CDs! What a joke! Maybe we can have movies in 1x1 pixel resolution and fit 140 hours of video on a floppy disk! Just upconvert it to 1080p! No sweat! Maybe we can store audio in 1-bit mono audio with a 1Hz sampling rate. Just upsample it to 7.1 channel lossless audio! It's magic!
The biggest problem will be in distributing the magical fairy dust to everyone to run their players. Maybe NetFlix can send out a month supply with each rented movie? Best Buy and Blockbuster could stock it in with the 20 oz. bottles of Coke they keep by the cash registers. You can't keep magic fairy dust at room temperature and expect it to have a very long shelf life. Though there's also the other issue of the fairies that produce the dust. According to Wikipedia, they are only found on Easter Island. We'll have to cut a deal with the Chilean government to build harvesting and refinary plants. Transportation infrastructure will also need upgrading. We'll need to build airports and seaports. We'll also probably need a nuclear power plant built there as well, unless we can harness some of the fairy dust magic into powering the plants, kinda like how Mr. Fusion powers the time machine in Back to the Future Part II.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds an awful lot they're going to rebadge the HD-DVD players overflowing their warehouses and sell them as their new and improved upconverting SD players. If they do, that's actually quite ingenious. And it steals from Sony BD sales. hee hee hee. I love it. 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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papalek
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1536
Location: Longs SC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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But you have to realize that JSP on his 40" LCD will NOT be able to tell the difference from a well upconverted DVD and a Hi Def one. To him the new Blu Ray will just cost twice as much as the regular one with no improvement. He will not be able to tell a difference in the sound either. They will both sound the same on his $100 HTIB.
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greg_mitch
Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5320
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:49 am Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | | Sounds an awful lot they're going to rebadge the HD-DVD players overflowing their warehouses and sell them as their new and improved upconverting SD players. If they do, that's actually quite ingenious. And it steals from Sony BD sales. hee hee hee. I love it. |
If they keep the ability to play HD DVD that would be awesome! Just rebadge them and put a different sticker on the box and sell them for $85. Secret firmware upgarde maybe...
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Toshiba Talks HD DVD and Spews BS about Upconverting |
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| MYoung wrote: | | Alright, I defended Toshiba and HD DVD, but that's just a load of BS. Garbage in, garbage out. |
well yes that's baloney, it simply can't be as good. However, does it really matter how they spin it if this means they will keep their Blue laser, HD capable players on the market? My HD-A2 did the best job of upconverting DVD that I have ever seen. I would hate to see this tehcnology and all the infrastructure in place to m,ake it go down the toilet. IT's like Greg pointed out, this just might be a back-door attempt to keep it alive, I hope so.
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Bruce 09
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 747
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Toshiba Talks HD DVD and Spews BS about Upconverting |
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| MYoung wrote: | | Alright, I defended Toshiba and HD DVD, but that's just a load of BS. Garbage in, garbage out. You cannot get HD out of SD. Toshiba, don't give me this "art of upconverting" BS! |
Have you ever say an XA2 upconvert DVD on 50" plasma LCD, DLP , TV compared to a HD dvd disk ???
They said make look as good, NOT be BE as good!! All Marketing BS I agree .... BUT like people already pointed out , it is just to directly compete with Blue-ray sales and make them work for their money . I think it might work to make Sony drop prices to DIRECTLY compete with SD DVD if marketed right.
The masses are not buying 40 dollar disks over 20 dollar disks right now.
| draganm wrote: |
well yes that's baloney, it simply can't be as good. However, does it really matter how they spin it if this means they will keep their Blue laser, HD capable players on the market? My HD-A2 did the best job of upconverting DVD that I have ever seen. I would hate to see this tehcnology and all the infrastructure in place to m,ake it go down the toilet. IT's like Greg pointed out, this just might be a back-door attempt to keep it alive, I hope so. |
IF you think your a2 does a good job you should see the a35 and even better the XA2
You be surprised at how many people do not see or care about the difference of HD DVD over SD dvd and on smaller digital displays under 50" there is not really that much of a difference .
Bruce
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Toshiba Talks HD DVD and Spews BS about Upconverting |
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| Bruce 09 wrote: | IF you think your a2 does a good job you should see the a35 and even better the XA2
You be surprised at how many people do not see or care about the difference of HD DVD over SD dvd and on smaller digital displays under 50" there is not really that much of a difference . Bruce |
is the A35 that much better? I have often wondered about them but not many people have owned both and I don't remember reading a direct comparison fom anyone here.
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perisoft
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2920
Location: Ithaca, NY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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While my theater's in a shambles I've been watching stuff on the HTPC - just fed to my 42" Toshiba CRT RPTV at 720p. SD DVDs that're upconverted well look pretty damned sharp from 12 feet away - far sharper than they look on a 8' screen 12 feet away, obviously!  So... yeah, I bet it would be fairly hard to tell the difference on a 40-50" HDTV at 10-14 feet.
If you're three feet away it'll be obvious. Smaller viewing angle and not so much.
You've gotta have pretty good post processing, though. But no reason that can't be done if you care to do it.
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Bruce 09
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 747
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Toshiba Talks HD DVD and Spews BS about Upconverting |
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| draganm wrote: | | Bruce 09 wrote: | IF you think your a2 does a good job you should see the a35 and even better the XA2
You be surprised at how many people do not see or care about the difference of HD DVD over SD dvd and on smaller digital displays under 50" there is not really that much of a difference . Bruce |
is the A35 that much better? I have often wondered about them but not many people have owned both and I don't remember reading a direct comparison fom anyone here. |
Yes it is .
A lot of people have compared them directly on the other site . They all do HD dvd well, BUT the xa2 has the REON HQV chip for up conversion processing which has a lot of pic adjustable controls as well . AND when you go digital 1080p24fps
It also has the analogue outputs where the A2 doesn't .
The Xa2 had a perfect score on secrets for up conversion .
I have only briefly played with the a35 not owned one BUT my Xa2 is incredible, easily beats a lumagen and expensive dvd player combo.
If you still have a lot of dvd's and any HD DVD's the A35 can be had pretty cheap but even an A30 will give you 1080p.
Bruce
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Franky74
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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People who think that Toshiba is saying crap about DVD upscaling have not really understood Toshiba way with the HD format. From the beginning Toshiba knew people wouldn't just switch to HD because HD is proposed. Toshiba knew that on standard display (most of them being not even HD ready!) people wouldn't notice the difference between DVD (upsacled) and HD. I'm not talking about us, the aficionados of Home Theater, I'm refereing to the usual customer.
Toshiba strategy was simple: release as fast as possible low price HD-DVD players with excellent upscaling property so that people would directly buy a HD-DVD player rather than a standard DVD player, even if they wouldn't buy HD-DVD movies to begin with. Unfortunately, blu-ray had another point of view (HD is first meant to rich and happy few people) and much more supporter in the industry. Anyway, contrary to what people thought with the end of HD war (which is NOT actually over because there is another competitor to appear soon and named HD on demand), blu-ray players aren't going so low in price and they might actual not become cheap before long. Why? It is simple, blu-ray specifications are NOT yet implemented in any player and all the players who will be released with profile 2.0 will be bugged (or delayed if not released to prevent bugs). It was like that for previous profiles players so why would it be different for 2.0. The real problem we are faced with HD is this: the format who was ready and fully working lost; the one that won the war is the unfinished one. Of course Toshiba won't go to BD right now because they lost enough money! They will try to valuate what they have learnt with HD-DVD which is mainely DVD upscaling. And I bet that the real war will now be DVD (with excellent and low cost upscaler) vs blu-ray; and I wouldn't bet on the winner to be the later. So be all prepared for HD to remain a product of luxury at least for few months.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Toshiba Talks HD DVD and Spews BS about Upconverting |
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| Bruce 09 wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | Bruce 09 wrote: | IF you think your a2 does a good job you should see the a35 and even better the XA2
You be surprised at how many people do not see or care about the difference of HD DVD over SD dvd and on smaller digital displays under 50" there is not really that much of a difference . Bruce |
is the A35 that much better? I have often wondered about them but not many people have owned both and I don't remember reading a direct comparison fom anyone here. |
Yes it is .
A lot of people have compared them directly on the other site . They all do HD dvd well, BUT the xa2 has the REON HQV chip for up conversion processing which has a lot of pic adjustable controls as well . AND when you go digital 1080p24fps
It also has the analogue outputs where the A2 doesn't .
The Xa2 had a perfect score on secrets for up conversion .
I have only briefly played with the a35 not owned one BUT my Xa2 is incredible, easily beats a lumagen and expensive dvd player combo.
If you still have a lot of dvd's and any HD DVD's the A35 can be had pretty cheap but even an A30 will give you 1080p.
Bruce |
Alot of that is based upon video performance or film mode performance with bad edits. I've not really seen a good "film-based to film-based" comparison. I suspect there is little if any difference 99% of the time.
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A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station....
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Bruce 09
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 747
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Alot of that is based upon video performance or film mode performance with bad edits. I've not really seen a good "film-based to film-based" comparison. I suspect there is little if any difference 99% of the time. |
I agree that the difference would be slight to none viewing a good source with perfect edits,especially on all the top performing players. The Xa2 was not really " Perfect " either . It looks like the new oppo 983 is supposed to be the NEW King of SD DVD up conversion anyway.
Kris has to test something though, Purely visual tests are too subjective for a "review".So testing potential flaws and performance benchmarks is a pretty good indicator of overall day to day performance. What else would make a good test for these players?
Bruce
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