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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Guys, your getting the diode specs wrong. The 914's are the small signal ones, those are small red ones with glass casings.
The 1N4003's do not even list reverse recovery time on most spec sheets I looked at.The SBVy27's are "soft" recovery. Its that feature which is important in noise reduction. I did see the recovery time listed some where
it might have been in my pooge articles but the SVB's are faster.
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oops, yuor right. the 1N4003 shows a standard receovery of 500ns, which is 500 billionths of s second? It looks like the soft recovery Vishays are much faster?
| Nashou66 wrote: | Dragan, Trust me on the 50 volt caps. That rail does not ever get that high of voltage spikes, I have never seen it go higher than 23.7v volts. Remember the Marquees are one of the few PJ's that have very few on board voltage regulators. Most of the voltage is right from the LVPS.
Athanasios |
just wondering, did you take a reading during power up, when the HV first energizes? I just don't buy the "E-home had a bucnh of caps lying around" theory. For one, they didn't even make their own board, they were outsourced AFAIK. Initially the early 1995 models have 400V caps there, then they went to a 250V, seems unlikely they have had all those just lying around.  I bet if you date code the caps they all match up the DOM of the machine itself.
anyway, really loking forward to the SBVy27's, one of the first things I'll be ordering next time I buy parts.
if you'll notice, the majority of that thread deals with upgrading the older marquee 8000 models, which no one uses today. Everything useful from that thread that applies to the 8500 Nash has put into this thread.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: |
if you'll notice, the majority of that thread deals with upgrading the older marquee 8000 models, which no one uses today. Everything useful from that thread that applies to the 8500 Nash has put into this thread. |
Nope, that thread has almost nothing to do with the 8000, as in, the very early version of the Marquees. And I doubt if I addressed anything that deals with either the very early VIM or neck boards.
I'm sure they should be substantial info on me saying to replace both early version VIM and neck boards.. because everything beyond the early version VIM and neck boards is what they used on the 8110, 8500, and 9500 versions, and everything from there on.
I never wasted any time on the early version stuff, mainly because I knew first hand why it was replaced.
Plus at the time that thread was in effect, I did not own an 8000 or 9000.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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maybe I misread the thread then, it looks like a lot of time was spent talking about adding the blue gamma circuit to older VIM's, replacing the older CL409 and H1100chips and acceptable substitutes for the CL449 chips which were getting hard to find. Talk about the older neck-cards and streaking on video, how to check for it, etc.
From there it progressed to the P14 voltage fix, some stuff in the HVPS section etc. It was a great thread back in 2003.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5689
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, and you guys are doing great by keeping up the good work after taking the baton and going even further..
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I couldn't believe when I read this
| Quote: | [QUOTE=stylinlp;1782279] 01-22-03, 12:40 PM
Im all confused about most what your all talking about. My friend and I bought 2 EHome Marquee 8500's but the dept we bought them from at work says that they were going dim. we shined a flashlight into the tubes showing that the tube wear wasn't all that bad. We used that webpage as a guide that shows pics of various conditions of tube wear. |
the friend he's refering to who just bought 2 Marquee's was me. Wow, can't believe 7 years has gone by 
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vinm
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | I don't like the Mallory SEK caps, not very good numbers. |
I ordered those caps for focus board , but I think the effect of higher ESR it's the same on all boards 
Only to understand well (I'm refresing my old electronic skills) , is ESR important for decoupling caps (I know that is became relevant to high frequencies) ?
About the voltage rating, looking at the schematic it's interesting to note that 10uF/250V are next to tantalum caps 100n/50V (same node), so it could reinforce the theory about lying caps ? 
I think that for now I'll keep standard caps (that are already updated to 350V values from old mod) and after my pj will come back to light, I'll continue with new improvements
| draganm wrote: | | if you'll notice, the majority of that thread deals with upgrading the older marquee 8000 models, which no one uses today. Everything useful from that thread that applies to the 8500 Nash has put into this thread. |
Perahps that affermation on caps was general and not's related to particular board.
Btw I want to thanks Mike for his precious and pioneer work on marquees, that has turned passion on crts on many people!
Vincenzo
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| vinm wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | if you'll notice, the majority of that thread deals with upgrading the older marquee 8000 models, which no one uses today. Everything useful from that thread that applies to the 8500 Nash has put into this thread. |
Perahps that affermation on caps was general and not's related to particular board.
Vincenzo |
hard to say, capacitors is one topic even engineers have wildly different opinions on. How important is ESR, when is it important, is a higher voltage rating good or bad, etc. I think the only thing everyone here agree's on is that while the Marquee is an excellent design there's lots of possible improvement in many area's. The convergence board can be a lot more stable and noise cane be cleaned up on almost all the modules. I think these SBVy27's diode's Nash found could be a big factor.
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Boilermaker
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | hard to say, capacitors is one topic even engineers have wildly different opinions on. How important is ESR, when is it important, is a higher voltage rating good or bad, etc. I think the only thing everyone here agree's on is that while the Marquee is an excellent design there's lots of possible improvement in many area's. The convergence board can be a lot more stable and noise cane be cleaned up on almost all the modules. I think these SBVy27's diode's Nash found could be a big factor. |
Draganm - I strongly suggest you get a copy of the POOGE articles like Nash has (they have been reprinted from the original articles). It will answer all your questions and you will see that the design for what you are doing was developed in the 1970's.
Bob
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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the marquee is the ultimate tweak machine thats for sure 
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | | the marquee is the ultimate tweak machine thats for sure |
I think the Ampros would be too. They are similar in there mostly analog style. the Sonys and Barco 909 series is more of a digital chassis which makes it more difficult for those not schooled in digital electronics. Changes in those machines can cause weird things to happen if you alter the digital data streams at all.
Athanasios
_________________
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"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone here tried the 1.2Ghz LMH6703 chip on the marquee VIM?
http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LMH6703.pdf
The only place I found it discussed was in this thread where Nash mentioned it and Mike said not to use it. 
https://www.curtpalme.com/forum_archived/viewtopic.php@t=13870.html
I guess my question is why not? It appears from the description to be a reasonable substitute for the primary amplifiers at U11,17, and 23. The original CL449 with a gain of 2 seems to match well with the product description for the 6703. So the appeal here is you wouldn't need to alter the surrounding components except to possibly improve the coupling caps at C33,49,65.
| Quote: | At a gain of +2 the LMH6703 supports ultra high resolution video systems with a 750 MHz 2 VPP −3 dB Bandwidth. With 12-bit distortion levels through 10 MHz (RL = 100Ω), and a 2.3nV/ input referred noise, the LMH6703 is the ideal driver or buffer for high speed flash A/D and D/A converters. Wide dynamic range systems such as radar and communication receivers requiring a wideband amplifier offering exceptional signal purity will find the LMH6703’s low input referred noise and low harmonic distortion an attractive solution
Applications
RGB video driver
High resolution projectors |
Last edited by draganm on Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I treid it. The thing i found is some work and some don't. That was over 2 years ago when I began this thread. The chips were too inconsistent and I really saw no difference with the ones that worked. I had about 20 chips and onlt 5 worked right.
I got lucky with the first one i treid, then on the other two channels it took me to go through almost all the chipos to find three that worked. The One went bad after.
I decided to stay away from them after that.
maybe the latest batches might be better.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I treid it. The thing i found is some work and some don't. That was over 2 years ago when I began this thread. The chips were too inconsistent I had about 20 chips and onlt 5 worked right. I got lucky with the first one i treid, then on the other two channels it took me to go through almost all the chipos to find three that worked. The One went bad after.
I decided to stay away from them after that.
maybe the latest batches might be better.
Athanasios |
WOW, a 75% failure rate is hard to believe Did you buy them from and authorized distributor or were they an e-bay special?
| Nashou66 wrote: | | and I really saw no difference with the ones that worked. |
that's not good either. Did you do do anything to the circuit other than the chip or just replaced the CL449?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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I did add 6.8 uf decoupling caps and I think i went with the proper FB and G resistors if they were different. I never keep notes and I tried lots of Op Amps.
There was also the 6702 I think i tried. I still have some of both. I do remember putting a 100pf cap to the stack of decoupling caps and it helped a bit.
I got them directly from NS, samples. they sent me out more when i said that half were bad.
Id give them a try again drags, I might have got a bad batch or something.
Athanasios
_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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el5166 is a better choice higher sr less noise and a direct drop in.
gain 2 bw800mhz.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | el5166 is a better choice higher sr less noise and a direct drop in.
gain 2 bw800mhz. |
THANK YOU!
I was looking at the specs of the LMH 6703 and comparing them last night to the CL449. There's very little difference. First off it looks like hte CL449 was a very capable amplifier to begin with, so you would need a substantial improvement to really make a difference. That would explain why Nash didn't see any difference with this chip.
Even with the faster EL 5166 chip I suspect the key here is what's already been discussed in the past, to improve the filtering at the rails and coupling caps?
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 2158
Location: nederland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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i used 1-10-100-1000nf-6.8uftant an additional 0.1nf (100pf) wouldnt hurt.
instead of the 4r7 resistors jarmo used inductors but that was on the ths3201, they will work on the el5166 the part nrs are somewhere in this thread.
you could use a 22uf oscon instead of the 6.8uf tant and compare.
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