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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | That is cool they you have one of those though, its a part of marquee Clone History. Id leave the same Caps in there unless you test them and they are leaky. Replacements are super expensive, up to 90 bucks each. |
I'm not going to mess with the FGM at all
| Nashou66 wrote: | He did use BC philips caps on the other boards, I think it was 560uf on the VIM power rails, and used 22uf 50v on all the CVA caps, 560uf caps inplace of the 470uf on the VDM and Astig amp board. And twisted pair of 1uf cog ceramics on all the op amps on the vim with 22uf across the =/- pins. it migth not be exact as this is from memory. Haven't looked at those notes since last year. the notes are the ones given to the assembly crew who did the mods.
Athanasios |
nope, none of those things were done, maybe it's only on the 9x model? The only other thing I haven't mentioned is it has some huge VIM to VNB cables, like over 1/4" thick. They don't fit very well. All other boards are 100 original although it does have the V-21 VIM from VDC so this is a pretty late model machine. I wonder if the peaking circuit was set by VDC or Accurate?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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| Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | That is cool they you have one of those though, its a part of marquee Clone History. Id leave the same Caps in there unless you test them and they are leaky. Replacements are super expensive, up to 90 bucks each. |
I'm not going to mess with the FGM at all
| Nashou66 wrote: | He did use BC philips caps on the other boards, I think it was 560uf on the VIM power rails, and used 22uf 50v on all the CVA caps, 560uf caps inplace of the 470uf on the VDM and Astig amp board. And twisted pair of 1uf cog ceramics on all the op amps on the vim with 22uf across the =/- pins. it migth not be exact as this is from memory. Haven't looked at those notes since last year. the notes are the ones given to the assembly crew who did the mods.
Athanasios |
nope, none of those things were done, maybe it's only on the 9x model? The only other thing I haven't mentioned is it has some huge VIM to VNB cables, like over 1/4" thick. They don't fit very well. All other boards are 100 original although it does have the V-21 VIM from VDC so this is a pretty late model machine. I wonder if the peaking circuit was set by VDC or Accurate? |
Ahhh, he might have got a replacement Vim. I think Scott said those came in around 2003-2004 IIRC.
Is that the date on the Projector?
I have wanted to try wet tants on the VNB's but too expensive to experiment with right now.
Well its an interesting find for sure. when hitting the * button on the remote does it say Accurate Imaging
or any thing else?
Athanasios
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | Ahhh, he might have got a replacement Vim. I think Scott said those came in around 2003-2004 IIRC.
Is that the date on the Projector?
Well its an interesting find for sure. when hitting the * button on the remote does it say Accurate Imaging
or any thing else?
Athanasios |
it's a 2002 model, says Accurate imaging on the remote with custom blue lettering. Corrosion in 2 out of 3 LC chambers, what a PITA
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | draganm wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | The values on many boards should be kept the same but you can experiment with larger values (uf) , usually just a single jump in value. like 22uf to 33uf. I think the CVA 10uf 250v caps would benefit here from that. They are on a 24 volt rail so i do not think the 250 voltage is needed. 50v is fine. For those caps Id try the Panny FM 220uf 50v-63v. Chris Stevens who was one of the first modifiers of the Marquee and was with Accurate Imaging who's marquee clones got great reviews used 22uf 50v caps there. I think even higher like the 220uf would even be better especially in installations where you need more keystone or geometry use.
Athanasios |
Nash correct me if i'm but this sounds like a very flawed idea. It doesn't matter what rail those larger CVA caps are on, they are being driven by the trio of smaller 22uf50 volt caps and then in turn drive the coil. Why would you put a teeny little 50 volt cap here? |
I doubted it also. But this is what he did on all the Pj's they sold. Also I scoped the voltage from those caps. It never gets that high. Mike parker also went with 390uf by 63 volts IIRC, I can't check that to confirm as i do not have access to his site any longer.
If you look at the schematic the 10uf caps are the buffer caps for the 24 volt rail in parallel with 100nf 50v caps. They are not driven but feed the amps. They really do not get any high peak surges from what I have seen scoping it while ramping the convergence all over the place. I am not sure why they went with 250, maybe back then that voltage had a higher ripple current value. Most caps ripple current increases as you go up in voltage but size and other factors may come into play now with the newer design caps.
Like I was told by someone here before "you'll never know till you try".
Athanasios |
this has really been in the back of my mind and it bugs me because there are no major design flaws in the MArquee. there are production problems like the bad trim pot in the LVPS and the installed 100VDC rated caps on the VNB's which according to schematics should be 160 but the design is solid. So WHY would they put a 250VDC caps on a 25 volt rail.  I think I know why. 
Do this, unplug one or more of the CVA leads and simple set them down on the Alum heat sink. Now power up the machine. What i've seen commonly is that you will see high voltage static arcing from the plug which is in turn coming from the yoke. In other words the yoke is picking up some of the HV field that is generated from the HVPS when it initially drives the Anode. This in turn is fed back into the CVA. Do this dozens or hundreds of times and a smaller, less robust cap in the CVA circuit will start to fail. So the larger caps have nothing to do with the actual CVA circuit, they're there to buffer the board from HV static arcing.
Thoughts?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Drags, I don't know...... IF that was the case then all caps on those boards should be higher voltage since they all have connectors coming from the tubes to them. I would think the ground would take care of that, there are 4 2 ohm resistors that those connectors go to ground with. The CVA is the only board that has 10uf caps of all the other boards that are connected to any tube hardware, so maybe like Scott said earlier:
| tse wrote: | There is no reason to have caps across a rail that are rated much more than the voltage of the rail. Maybe Ehome had thousands of the 250V caps left over from some other project and used them so they didn't have to buy 35V caps. Business is business.
Scott |
They just had tons of them and could use them there.
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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ok here is something that i want to add and this has to be placed at the focus module section.
when best pic 4(focus) is for instance on 30 this doesnt have to mean the coils are out of spec cause after replacing the 9 irf520s with new 1s and maybe the fets on the heatsink, best focus crawls towards 50 in my case approx 40.
this happened twice now on 2 modules on which i replaced the fets so changing them out helps, so you have more room for focussing left and right.
funny thing is that i havent replaced them on my own module and my best focus is on 30.
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Nashou66
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| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | ok here is something that i want to add and this has to be placed at the focus module section.
when best pic 4(focus) is for instance on 30 this doesnt have to mean the coils are out of spec cause after replacing the 9 irf520s with new 1s and maybe the fets on the heatsink, best focus crawls towards 50 in my case approx 40.
this happened twice now on 2 modules on which i replaced the fets so changing them out helps, so you have more room for focussing left and right.
funny thing is that i havent replaced them on my own module and my best focus is on 30. |
You know Dennis I noticed the same thing as well while fixing the Focus board I talked about on this thread.
Not sure why but I also noticed a slight improvement in the image I was never able to explain. It might be the newer
fets are more stable, that is they can hold the voltage or current at smoother pace with less pulsing. I never really looked at the scope wave forms for that as I was looking for the correct one to diagnose my loss of focus at a certain frequency while i had focus on others. I still have to fix that board as a conquest since I really don't need it. 
While your on this testing stuff Dennis, throw in some Soft recover diodes in place of the ones there. The 1N4003's , they are all over the marquee.
I suggest the SBYV27-200's these are a soft recovery diode. They are far less noisy than the 1N4003's. I bought over 200 of them with plans to replace every last one in the Marquee but never got around to it.
Only on that Focus board, but i did that at the same time i changed the fets so if they alone made an improvement I do not know for sure.
The POOGE Chronicles is what inspired me on that one.
Excerpt form that Book on soft recovery Diodes.
Enjoy the reading, Very informative and it had testing to back up its claims.
Athanasios
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:08 am Post subject: |
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interesting,i looked at farnell and they do not have the 50v anymore so i will have to take the 100v, they are 1.08*1.19 euro a piece.
can these be used instead of the 1n4002 and 1n4003?
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Nashou66
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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i found out a funny thing about the clm mod.
i did the entire mod on my friends pj (2 days)
first i tested the clm with just the 0.1uf tants on the 15volt rail, the 47uf were in place of course, all was well and no error leds of course. after i put the 22uf on top the 0.1uf tants and tested again all was well again but the funny thing is that the horizontal error led lights up just a second before firing the tubes.
this is the same what happens on my clm after changing out all those decoupling caps.
i never knew if it was maybe a small malfunction on the clm but now i know.
so if anyone encounters this, be assured it is nothing to worry about, i run it now 7 months after the clm mod without any problems.
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dvh99
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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installed the modded clm today into my friends pj (9500ultra) and all i can say is that the difference is striking, the noise floor dropped tremendously and the colours look better, i forgot how much it is needed but i now it is mandatory for all marquee owners so anyone who hasnt done it, get it done.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dvh99 wrote: | | installed the modded clm today into my friends pj (9500ultra) and all i can say is that the difference is striking, the noise floor dropped tremendously and the colours look better, i forgot how much it is needed but i now it is mandatory for all marquee owners so anyone who hasnt done it, get it done. |
I agree Dennis, Its one of the first thing i noticed was the colors. Just richer, deeper, and cleaner.
There is alot of digital "hash" created on that board. Putting the caps and inductors on the main lines in helps, but doing each chips decoupling cap really is the way to go. but cost is a factor for most as yo need over 100 tants, plus the low noise op amps etc.
But glad it looks good for you.
I really wish i could have found SMD oscons at a reasonable price instead of tant's. I bet that would be even better.
Athanasios
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dvh99
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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yes all decoupling caps should be done (150 or so), i did not test in between changing them but just took them all of at once and replaced them all before testing this way it goes much quicker then doing 5 or 10 at a time.
i used all oscons on the main power rails now 100uf 20v.
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dvh99
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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it looks good for him btw  thats the important part.
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dvh99
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.cde.com/catalogs/ESRD.pdf
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Nashou66
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dvh99
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| Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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damn there are no secrets for you, lol.
if i had known these i would have ordered them for the vnbs and vim
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Though i've had fun with HD mod's I always come back to this thread when I get bored and i'm ready to take the package i offer to the next level. Initially I was doing just caps and resistors but the P14 noise filter (which is a direct offspring of this thread) is such nice thing to do now. while my criteria is obviously different than someone doing their own personal machine, I'm always looking for things I can add which are both economical and won't add hours and hours to an already lengthy process. i'm especially intrigued by some of the stuff you guys have talked about below.
| Quote: | Solid Polymer Aluminum capacitors combine the high capacitance capability of an
electrolytic component with the high frequency performance of film capacitors. When
the need for low impedance at high frequency is critical for your design, one ESRD
chip is capable of replacing several liquid electrolyte aluminum or tantalum capacitors
connected in parallel. This is due to the ultra-low ESR which results in significantly
lower impedance than either aluminum or tantalum capacitors at frequencies of 100
kHz and above. There is no longer a need to stack capacitors to lower the impedance at
high frequency. The low ESR and high capacitance make them ideal for bypassing high
frequency noise, and for switching frequency filtering in DC/ DC conversion. ESRD
capacitors are packaged in a molded resin case with the same footprint (7.3 x 4.3 mm)
as the industry standard tantalum “D” and “E” case sizes. The solid electrolyte results
in a capacitor with stable impedance and equivalent series resistance over the entire
operating temperature range and they have more than twice the ripple current handling
capability of tantalum capacitors. In addition, the solid electrolyte delivers a typical
expected operating life of more than 50 years, |
| dvh99 wrote: | damn there are no secrets for you, lol.
if i had known these i would have ordered them for the vnbs and vim |
A quick look shows the ESRD caps biggest weakness is their low voltage rating at higher values. Fos instance, going to just a basic 10uf rating gives you a max voltage rating of 6 volts. So it appears the ESRD's are not capable of actually replacing most of the Solid tant's on the VIM or VNB's. AFAIK tell these would be best piggy backed as filters over an existing Tantalum caps Either on the VIM's main power input section or in the video chain coupling caps?
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier/ESRD2R2M16R/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtm5nWh%2fhvnH4%252bFdNN8z7iQ8JTlnmVuoMk%3d
| dvh99 wrote: | i found out a funny thing about the clm mod.
first i tested the clm with just the 0.1uf tants on the 15volt rail, the 47uf were in place of course, all was well and no error leds of course. after i put the 22uf on top the 0.1uf tants and tested again all was well again but the funny thing is that the horizontal error led lights up just a second before firing the tubes.
this is the same what happens on my clm after changing out all those decoupling caps.
i never knew if it was maybe a small malfunction on the clm but now i know.
so if anyone encounters this, be assured it is nothing to worry about, i run it now 7 months after the clm mod without any problems. |
Are you talking about C1 and C2 on the CLM? What about leaving the stock Solid tant's in place and just piggy backing some 2.2UF ESRD's over the top of them?
| Nashou66 wrote: | While your on this testing stuff Dennis, throw in some Soft recover diodes in place of the ones there. The 1N4003's , they are all over the marquee.
I suggest the SBYV27-200's these are a soft recovery diode. They are far less noisy than the 1N4003's. I bought over 200 of them with plans to replace every last one in the Marquee but never got around to it.
Only on that Focus board, but i did that at the same time i changed the fets so if they alone made an improvement I do not know for sure.
Athanasios |
That's a great piece of info Nash. unfortunately for me replacing 150 diode's isn't feasible without making my turn-around time 6 months  It would be interesting to experiment with which diode replacement with soft recovery version would yield the biggest improvement. I'm thinking the obvious place would be the ones on the video neck-board, D4 an D14 and also on FCM D101,102,201,202,301,302?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Drags, I also think it be even better to change the two that are connected together D13,D11 and D18 and D19. These are directly tied into the video circuit and less noise here would probably be the biggest improvement out of any mods tot he VNB Id think. Just lookat the noise levels generated fromt he 1n4004's in the POOGE article. I think this would be directly seen in the video signal . That is part of the cascading amps so i think lowering the noise floor level
here would clean up the image really well. I have a feeling the sparkles you can see on full fields are caused here and amplified. We are always trying to clean up the noise on that 85 volt rail and seem to forget that noise can be created beyond the voltage input and right in the amp circuit . I have not done this mod yet but have about 200 of those diodes. There is another place where soft recovery can help but its not just simple diodes
Athanasios
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