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Tinman
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1326
Location: Carson City Nevada
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Now it's only a matter of time until a movie everyone just HAS to have is ONLY released on Blu-ray.
It's the next logical step in the eventual domination of BD.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:47 am Post subject: |
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I just wish the damn bluray played as smoothly as the HD-DVD's
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: |
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You guys talking about low prices on BR DVD's are leaving out the fact that there was a war going on. Now that the war is over will prices still stay low or will they reflect that BR is the only place to get a high definition disc? I mean why even bother selling a disc that is about the same price as a SD DVD. BR DVD's have to be way more expensive to make and market and they can not spread the cost over billions of them like they can on a SD DVD.
I would look back at what BR DVD's sold for when they first came out, before they started reducing prices to be competitive with HD DVD, maybe there is a clue there in what they have to sell them for to make it worth while.
The whole idea behind HD DVD was they were able to use existing SD DVD factories to produce them. No huge start up cost like BR DVD, Toshiba just switches back to producing SD DVD's it's not like they have to tear the place down and start over.
Oh well Toshiba tried to sell a cheap good alternative.
Deron.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | | kal wrote: | Exactly. For a brand new format, the prices are already dirt cheap. DVD was never this cheap this fast. I remember drooling over only having to pay $35-40 for a DVD! That was 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the nearest LD!
Kal |
This has been a costly 'war' all the way around. I think Toshiba should now sell their manufacturing facilities to Sony to recoup some of their losses.
Greg |
Why should they sell manufacturing capacity when Sony relies on Toshiba to manufacture the cell processor for those beloved PS3's. I think Toshiba can refit those resources to make Blu-ray in-house and get with the [winning] game.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | I just wish the damn bluray played as smoothly as the HD-DVD's |
I've had one movie on each platform not playback smoothly. Only difference is a firmware update fixed the problem on the Samsung BD-P1400, but the firmware update on the HD DVD did not help. Still, I am not 100% sure its the player vs the disk.
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WanMan
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10270
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| deronmoped wrote: | You guys talking about low prices on BR DVD's are leaving out the fact that there was a war going on. Now that the war is over will prices still stay low or will they reflect that BR is the only place to get a high definition disc? I mean why even bother selling a disc that is about the same price as a SD DVD. BR DVD's have to be way more expensive to make and market and they can not spread the cost over billions of them like they can on a SD DVD.
I would look back at what BR DVD's sold for when they first came out, before they started reducing prices to be competitive with HD DVD, maybe there is a clue there in what they have to sell them for to make it worth while.
The whole idea behind HD DVD was they were able to use existing SD DVD factories to produce them. No huge start up cost like BR DVD, Toshiba just switches back to producing SD DVD's it's not like they have to tear the place down and start over.
Oh well Toshiba tried to sell a cheap good alternative.
Deron. |
Since I am not currently seeing prices on standalone Blu-ray players as low as at Xmas, I doubt we'll see anything sub-$300 until the next Xmas holiday. This should be a re-enforced condition now that competition has pulled out. Also, I would imagine the prices of disks will start to go up for the same reason.
Its just another reason to Class-Action against Toshiba and the DVD Forum. 
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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deronmoped
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 1154
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Prices on Blu-ray discs will follow the same pattern as DVD: They continue to go lower and lower and more and more are produced. More volume = lower price. Volume will pick up as the war is now over.
Kal |
Sure volume usually means lower prices, but what are the other factors involved?
I think it's still questionable on what will happen. BR prices were probably artificially low because of the war going on with HD DVD. I mean how much more can they squeeze out of the public for a high definition disc with all the added extras over a SD DVD. They could try to compete with SD DVDs and that would drive prices down, or they could try to squeeze every last cent they could out of people. It will be interesting to see. I can imagine there will be a huge sales campaign launched, telling everyone that what you see right now is crap and high definition will save your eyes.
I think it will come down to two things, mood of the public and how fast the guys that want to sell you movies by download can get people buying into that. People are already getting used to downloading things, the talk is already out there about downloading high definition movies. How many people are already saying, "why build a library of BR DVDs, downloading is going to be the way to go".
Anyone know how far out is high definition (or what people will accept as high definition) downloadable movies, a year, two years?
Deron.
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Person99
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4899
Location: Flower Mound, TX
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | Prices on Blu-ray discs will follow the same pattern as DVD: They continue to go lower and lower and more and more are produced. More volume = lower price. Volume will pick up as the war is now over.
Kal |
Volume would have picked up if HD DVD won. Volume to create discounts for BD is a ways off. Until players are <$200, you won't see widespread adoption. No widespread adoption = no lower prices.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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The funnyiest thing that could pssibly happen with Blur-Ray is, after they spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing their inferior format and bribing movie companies and retailers to support it, it never really catches on and consumers stick with regular DVD. It's really what they deserve in so many ways.
AAMOF, considering the current economy and consumer spending I would not be surprised to see this at all. They keep harping about how Toshiba only sold 1 million HD players while Sony sold 8 million PS3's. What they fail to consider is Toshiba sold 1 million dedicated HD-DVD players while Sony sold 8 million game machines. How many of those gamers will be replacing their movie collection with $25. blur-ray versions?
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oliverg
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 800
Location: Melbourne, Australia
TV/Projector: Sony G90 X2 - Vidikron Vision 1
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| draganm wrote: | The funnyiest thing that could pssibly happen with Blur-Ray is, after they spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing their inferior format and bribing movie companies and retailers to support it, it never really catches on and consumers stick with regular DVD. It's really what they deserve in so many ways.
AAMOF, considering the current economy and consumer spending I would not be surprised to see this at all. They keep harping about how Toshiba only sold 1 million HD players while Sony sold 8 million PS3's. What they fail to consider is Toshiba sold 1 million dedicated HD-DVD players while Sony sold 8 million game machines. How many of those gamers will be replacing their movie collection with $25. blur-ray versions? |
Actually, you're dead wrong. Lots of PS3 owners have considerable BR collections - including mamy members here.
When the war was going on there was all this "You can't count the PS3 as a BR player.. blah blah"
As it turns out, one of the reasons the war was lost by HD-DVD is because of the PS3.
You know, all this Sony / BR bashng is starting to sound like sour grapes. BR won, it was always going to win - end of story. For the last year, all there's been is never ending denial .. every milestone in BRs favour was discounted and rubbished. If we'd have listened to the HD-DVD crowd, HD-DVD had a chance of winning all the way up to the Toshiba announcement.
I have no problem with people supporting one format or another. Good for you. But blatantly ignoring all the facts does little to bolster one's credibility.
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| deronmoped wrote: |
Anyone know how far out is high definition (or what people will accept as high definition) downloadable movies, a year, two years?
Deron. |
The internet as we know it is incapable of the kind of bandwidth this would eat up.check this out:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=511
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emdawgz1
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 7949
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| deronmoped wrote: | You guys talking about low prices on BR DVD's are leaving out the fact that there was a war going on. Now that the war is over will prices still stay low or will they reflect that BR is the only place to get a high definition disc? I mean why even bother selling a disc that is about the same price as a SD DVD. BR DVD's have to be way more expensive to make and market and they can not spread the cost over billions of them like they can on a SD DVD.
I would look back at what BR DVD's sold for when they first came out, before they started reducing prices to be competitive with HD DVD, maybe there is a clue there in what they have to sell them for to make it worth while.
The whole idea behind HD DVD was they were able to use existing SD DVD factories to produce them. No huge start up cost like BR DVD, Toshiba just switches back to producing SD DVD's it's not like they have to tear the place down and start over.
Oh well Toshiba tried to sell a cheap good alternative.
Deron. |
Why is it more expensive?
If its a new movie its probably already filmed? digitally, so it costs nothing more to xfer to dvd than to b/r.
If its an older film, its already made its money bieng sold on dvd, and the original master is just sitting on a shelf costing you storage space. For the price of a b/r transfer and some ad dollars you have a new source of revenue.
If im a dvd production facility, id already be scraping together the dollars to upgrade my facility to b/r. As the studios switch over, theres plenty of work to be done, and dough to be made.
Also the electronics compainies see this as a win win. More hd sources means more hd displays to be sold, and vice versa.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| oliverg wrote: | When the war was going on there was all this "You can't count the PS3 as a BR player.. blah blah"
As it turns out, one of the reasons the war was lost by HD-DVD is because of the PS3. . |
I don't know why someone would say it never counted, the PS3 is the only reason sony's inferior product prevailed. AFA my "credibility" being damaged by sony bashing I don't think I will lose any sleep over that. All the people on here I get along with are of the same opinion = the Sony Corp. , everything it makes, and everything it stands for is total sh*t.
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24396
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
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From what I saw, it had everything to do with the movie studios, nothing with the end user.
Sony had more clout, they could give a crap about the consumer. The general consumer is too ignorant to determine what format would win. Toshiba tried to go with the 'ours is cheaper' route. They sold more for quite a while, but Sony and the associated studios had deeper pockets. That's my take anyways.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | From what I saw, it had everything to do with the movie studios, nothing with the end user.
Sony had more clout, they could give a crap about the consumer. The general consumer is too ignorant to determine what format would win. Toshiba tried to go with the 'ours is cheaper' route. They sold more for quite a while, but Sony and the associated studios had deeper pockets. That's my take anyways. |
...and greased the most palme's. ( present company excluded )
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 10187
Location: kamloops BC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: |
...and greased the most palme's. ( present company excluded ) |
He is getting worse!! 
But I know he's the best!!
come on Kal, GIVE HIM MORE POWER!
damn now my "inner voice" is leaking out onto the key board, I will just have to wait till 5am PST to post this stuff....
Last edited by jask on Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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LOL
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kal
Forum Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Person99 wrote: | | kal wrote: | Prices on Blu-ray discs will follow the same pattern as DVD: They continue to go lower and lower and more and more are produced. More volume = lower price. Volume will pick up as the war is now over.
Kal |
Volume would have picked up if HD DVD won. Volume to create discounts for BD is a ways off. Until players are <$200, you won't see widespread adoption. No widespread adoption = no lower prices. |
I'm not convinced that volume would have picked up as much if HD DVD won. People just don't seem to understand what HD DVD is.
Yes, volume would/will pick up in general after one side wins as one format is better than two. Maybe faster with HD DVD due to low prices, but maybe faster with Blu-ray due to their better marketing campaign. You have to admit that Toshiba/HD DVD marketing SUCKED. It's basically why they lost (IMHO). They certainly didn't lose due to technical reasons.
I don't know. Knowing how ignorant the general population is, I'm not convinced that adoption of a next-gen HD on disc format would be faster due with lower priced HD DVD players with bad marketing vs. higher priced Blu-ray players with good marketing.
Myself, all I want is the fastest adoption possible to get the largest number of titles available on HD disc. I want HD on disc to replace SD on disc as fast as possible. I think there's limited window of opportunity as people may get more interested in streaming formats (HD or not). People don't care about quality it seems, so it's important to try and get HD on disc to be adopted widely before any format on disc is replaced by crappy compressed downloads.
I never 'preferred' Blu-ray over HD DVD but I seriously do think Blu-ray has a better chance at getting adoption rates going faster due to their marketing. The BDA just seems to know how to sell this stuff better than the DVD forum.
| draganm wrote: | | The funnyiest thing that could pssibly happen with Blur-Ray is, after they spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing their inferior format and bribing movie companies and retailers to support it, it never really catches on and consumers stick with regular DVD. It's really what they deserve in so many ways. |
But do you really want this? I certainly don't. The last thing I want is for HD on disc to become some 'niche' product where only 10% of the movies that come out are available on HD. That would seriously suck for all of us.
Do anti-Sony people really hate Sony enough to watch regular DVD for the rest of their lives? I'd never hate Sony enough for that.
Kal
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | You have to admit that Toshiba/HD DVD marketing SUCKED. It's basically why they lost (IMHO). They certainly didn't lose due to technical reasons.
Kal |
Kal, I agree…I don't know if you seen the TV ad with Michael Imperioli, it was like he was in his Christopher character from the Sopranos trying to strong arm you to buy one….It was pathetic!
Mike
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