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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Just waiting on my boards.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yeay!!! Their back!
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
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Well, I installed the boards and I have a working projector again! Yeah! Now I have more questions. Does changing the system board put me back at square one regarding gray scale, convergence and everything else? I'm afraid I know the answer. When I cranked it up I had no signal lines in the machine except for a listing called "5" which was in line number 1 and was listed as a component signal. I created a new signal entry on line number 2 which I called "1080i" and set as RGB and temporary. Then I did some rough raster centering to make sure I was not off the tube edges. Static convergence was already set at "0" and everything is WAY off. I'm looking at a full convergence setup for sure. That part does not bother me. What does is that everything looks predominantly green and bright. I set brightness and contrast to 50 each and turned on blue focus tracking and AKB. Did not notice any difference. I suppose setup and convergence is the first order of business and then I can work on everything else. I'm just happy to have it running again!
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm probably screwed on grayscale and color adjustments so I figured I would go ahead and order the Spyder II and the new DVE disc. Its already buggered so it can't get any worse and I might as well try and follow along with Kal's guide.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Don't assume that, did you hit the PIC FUNC button and then adjust Brightness a bit to see if it would pull the tubes into line ?
You might be able to fix it simply with the White Balance controls too...
Too bad the failed component on the system boards hasn't been identified, simply replacing the failed component wouldn't likely cause you to lose any settings...
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | Don't assume that, did you hit the PIC FUNC button and then adjust Brightness a bit to see if it would pull the tubes into line ?
You might be able to fix it simply with the White Balance controls too...
Too bad the failed component on the system boards hasn't been identified, simply replacing the failed component wouldn't likely cause you to lose any settings... |
I did set brightness and contrast to 50 but the overall picture was still washed out looking and had that very green cast to it. Looked good and sharp otherwise. I offered my defective system board to Curt and he did keep it so hopefully he is tinkering with the XG boards a bit. I have no clue about how the white balance controls work or G2 or anything like that. I found Kenny G's guide to G2 on this site so I might try it. I connected all of the items in my video chain just as before and it synced quickly so that was a relief.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: |
Too bad the failed component on the system boards hasn't been identified, simply replacing the failed component wouldn't likely cause you to lose any settings... |
This may not necessarily be true for 2 reason's.
1: When working on any board with a battery or firmware chips, they should be removed first to prevent any damage. Usually the battery is required to maintain memory data, but not always.
2: On Nec's there is a difference between syncing to a signal and locking onto that signal. Example: If you create a signal entry for 480p and it locks, sending it another resolution may sync, but not lock. So even if the 480 was all set up when locked, the other resolution may sync to that entry but since its not locked it wont benefit from the setup. Now with that being said, if the no sync repair changes the locking frequency just a little, then a 480 signal may sync but not lock to the original 480 entry. However creating a new signal entry and it will lock fine. So the fix may not give you the benefit of all your original settings.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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I played around a bit more last night and got a rough geometry done, toe in, etc. I adjusted the "bright gain" I believe it was and that helped a little with the over saturated green look. It's still pretty green and too bright but I am seeing some improvement from adjusting that control. I noticed that most adjustments of this kind are set at mid point or "0" right now. I also tried the brightness uniformity adjustment on an all white pattern and saw what effect that has. Very interesting as I had never touched this before nor had need to. It looks like the midpoint setting would be correct on this adjustment as going in either direction makes that side of the screen brighter which I guess is what is supposed to happen. Set in the middle I get the most uniform look but also notice the hotspotting in the middle caused by my laminate screen. Having never had to touch controls like this I am both excited and intimidated by it all. Time to print out some guides...
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Continuing this conversation with myself here. I did some more work last night on trying to smooth out that serious green hump I'm getting. Just messing with the Kelvin WHT/BLK controls I got a much better looking picture but still not there. I notice the over saturated green mostly in dark scenes or where there are shadows and also in flesh tones, faces, etc. I posted a question over in the A/V Calibration forum here about G2 calibration as it looks like I need to do that before attempting greyscale with the Spyder I have on the way. Anyone that could help with my questions on the G2 process, that would be great.
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dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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The test / normal switch is on the video out board at the end. Its tiny so look close under the wire loom.
Use chassis as a ground for the neg lead.
If you dont have a vertical cross ramp use a 50 IRE window pattern and set to where the center of the pattern goes to black. I prefer the ramp.
The procedure is 'generic' so it wont be the same for everyone, how they do it or understand it nor what input to use. This is based on RGB so will be affected by the RGB signal chain, any conversion unless you have a generator. Kals way is one that is pretty well gone over using what he says for patterns. I dont know that colormeter.
Turning color off is the source / processor / scaler. Not the projector. Doug
Check the settings menu sync control and set to auto for now, might be a good idea to verify that your signal chain is giving what it is suppose to or check it using the 1100 or CRT monitor.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Great! Thanks Doug, I do plan to try Kal's guide on greyscale as it looks like everything this machine had prior to the system board swap is now gone.
By the way, regarding the system board issue I had. I did some further investigation on that AC receptacle and while I did not get voltage from neutral to ground, I also did not get voltage from hot to ground. So, no continuity on the circuit. I guess this could have caused the problem. For now the projector is plugged into a UPS which is plugged into a known good outlet. I will need to take the outlet I was using before apart to see what's wrong with it. Never was an issue when the XG-110 was plugged into it but perhaps some event happened that made it's way to the system board in the 852.
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dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Open earth ground somewhere. Id look into it then take readings. Doug
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Yeay! My Spyder is here. Now I need to steal, I mean borrow a laptop from work.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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DO NOT TURN ANY POTS.
Just a friendly reminder, as all NEC owners know, unless you are Einstein, and have an intimate knowledge of the oscilloscope, DO NOT turn any pots. Use only the "user" lever service white balance adjustments to correct your white balance issues.
I'm sure you'll get it done, I've done the JRobbo/Guy Kuo/KennyG routine a few times on my XG1350, and it looks pretty good now, easy to follow too...Don't be afraid to do it several times...
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | DO NOT TURN ANY POTS.
Just a friendly reminder, as all NEC owners know, unless you are Einstein, and have an intimate knowledge of the oscilloscope, DO NOT turn any pots. Use only the "user" lever service white balance adjustments to correct your white balance issues.
I'm sure you'll get it done, I've done the JRobbo/Guy Kuo/KennyG routine a few times on my XG1350, and it looks pretty good now, easy to follow too...Don't be afraid to do it several times... |
Assuming your pedestal levels are set ok...which is never the case!
For the rest of the white balance/convergence/focus settings, has anyone swapped ROMS? I wouldn't risk it, but I can redo the lot from scratch.....eventually.
And has anyone ever heard of a 220v unit having the scrambled mess issue? I have this hunch it's to do with the way the US power system works, with a 220v phase centre tapped. We have a single 240v phase and I've never heard of the problem here, but there are less XGs.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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So far so good with the new board. I have been working on setup and convergence again. Got about half way through the G2 procedure yesterday and had to stop to go to a birthday party. Hopefully tomorrow I can get through the G2 and move on to greyscale. It's been a rough few months being without a working projector but I'm having fun with it again now that it's fixed. My intention in going from the XG110 to the XG852 was only to have a little newer set and to take advantage of what I think was an ISF'ed set with low hours. A green tube swap and system board change later I feel like I have learned a lot even though it has cost me a little money and some headaches. I'm still looking forward to the great film like image that I know this set can put out. I saw on Optoma DLP today and while it was nice for a digital it just couldn't hold a candle to the smooth life like look of CRT. I'm glad I was patient and stayed here.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | So far so good with the new board. I have been working on setup and convergence again. Got about half way through the G2 procedure yesterday and had to stop to go to a birthday party. Hopefully tomorrow I can get through the G2 and move on to greyscale. It's been a rough few months being without a working projector but I'm having fun with it again now that it's fixed. My intention in going from the XG110 to the XG852 was only to have a little newer set and to take advantage of what I think was an ISF'ed set with low hours. A green tube swap and system board change later I feel like I have learned a lot even though it has cost me a little money and some headaches. I'm still looking forward to the great film like image that I know this set can put out. I saw on Optoma DLP today and while it was nice for a digital it just couldn't hold a candle to the smooth life like look of CRT. I'm glad I was patient and stayed here. |
Good to hear, won't be long and you seeing images like these: 
Mike
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
Good to hear, won't be long and you seeing images like these:
Mike |
I sure hope so Mike! If I can get close to what you have I will be happy. 
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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G2 Calibration procedure is complete. Wow, that was fun.  Now I'm ready to try greyscale. I am going to try and get some "before" pictures posted tonight, mostly for my reference to see if I make things better or worse. 
A question about the greyscale adjustment. Should I leave my gamma turned off from the RTC2200 while doing this and then add it back in later or does it need to be applied during this process?
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: |
Mike |
Mike, where do you have your brightness and contrast set to in these shots...and is this you in the last shot? 
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