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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | the XG tries like crazy to synch to it and almost kills itself trying. I've already had to shut it down, emergency style to take it out of an ever increasing cycle of flashes and squeals as it tries to synch.
I'm not saying that you can do anything about it NOW, but it wouldn't surprise me if the signal chain you have, which is similar to mine save for the switcher at the end, was the culprit in ruining your system board. Specifically, when HDMI connections "go bad", they can go REALLY, REALLY bad, from what I've seen... |
I had that happen a couple of times with my Moome internal card, I bothered me so much it was one reason I said f*ck this digital crap, if I can run analog Im just doing that, then I went back to an HTPC.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Drop,
In another thread you asked about pictures of my hush box I didn’t want to take that thread off topic so here is my reply, last weekend I decided to move the projector closer to the screen to increase my raster usage, I did all is well and my 1080p image is now getting to the point where I don’t think you could say it’s even soft after a 20 minute warm-up, except now the hush box will need to be rebuilt.
Thank god for my Chief Lift and Uni-Strut mount, it made the job a cinch had the projector moved in 20 minutes by myself. My circumstance is different than most, the projector is recessed into a soffit and the A/V equipment is on shelves above the 2 row seats. See images below, this weekend I plan to rebuild the hush box and I will post the images.
Mike
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Doing HD since the last century!
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Cool! I wish I could get mine recessed up in the ceiling a bit but I'm too chicken to start cutting things apart. Wow, you managed to fit 12 seats in that space and I can barely seat 4, maybe 6 if I push it. I like how the components are hidden up above as well, neat idea. Can't wait to see the hush box build.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | Elaine Benes wrote: | the XG tries like crazy to synch to it and almost kills itself trying. I've already had to shut it down, emergency style to take it out of an ever increasing cycle of flashes and squeals as it tries to synch.
I'm not saying that you can do anything about it NOW, but it wouldn't surprise me if the signal chain you have, which is similar to mine save for the switcher at the end, was the culprit in ruining your system board. Specifically, when HDMI connections "go bad", they can go REALLY, REALLY bad, from what I've seen... |
I had that happen a couple of times with my Moome internal card, I bothered me so much it was one reason I said f*ck this digital crap, if I can run analog Im just doing that, then I went back to an HTPC.
Mike |
Oh boy, Paul and Mike you guys are just full of good news huh?  I really hope this was not and HDMI handshake craziness issue which led to a board failure but I suppose it's possible. The 110 never had a problem with any of the items in my video chain and even the 852 ran on the floor with no issues. If I ever get a Moome card then I can eliminate a lot of pieces but then I'm really pigeonholed into the XG with that card as Paul pointed out earlier.
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | | Elaine Benes wrote: | the XG tries like crazy to synch to it and almost kills itself trying. I've already had to shut it down, emergency style to take it out of an ever increasing cycle of flashes and squeals as it tries to synch.
I'm not saying that you can do anything about it NOW, but it wouldn't surprise me if the signal chain you have, which is similar to mine save for the switcher at the end, was the culprit in ruining your system board. Specifically, when HDMI connections "go bad", they can go REALLY, REALLY bad, from what I've seen... |
I had that happen a couple of times with my Moome internal card, I bothered me so much it was one reason I said f*ck this digital crap, if I can run analog Im just doing that, then I went back to an HTPC.
Mike |
Yeah, I went back to RGBHV too, after friggin with HDMI....painful.
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MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | MikeEby wrote: | | Elaine Benes wrote: | the XG tries like crazy to synch to it and almost kills itself trying. I've already had to shut it down, emergency style to take it out of an ever increasing cycle of flashes and squeals as it tries to synch.
I'm not saying that you can do anything about it NOW, but it wouldn't surprise me if the signal chain you have, which is similar to mine save for the switcher at the end, was the culprit in ruining your system board. Specifically, when HDMI connections "go bad", they can go REALLY, REALLY bad, from what I've seen... |
I had that happen a couple of times with my Moome internal card, I bothered me so much it was one reason I said f*ck this digital crap, if I can run analog Im just doing that, then I went back to an HTPC.
Mike |
Oh boy, Paul and Mike you guys are just full of good news huh? I really hope this was not and HDMI handshake craziness issue which led to a board failure but I suppose it's possible. The 110 never had a problem with any of the items in my video chain and even the 852 ran on the floor with no issues. If I ever get a Moome card then I can eliminate a lot of pieces but then I'm really pigeonholed into the XG with that card as Paul pointed out earlier. |
Yeah....$400+ for a Moome seems kind of nutty that's almost 2/3 the cost of a HD-DVD/Bluray equiped HTPC. I am seeing XG's on Ebay go for $200-$500 a 1351 like mine today went for $500.
Mike
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | I'll go out on a limb here and place a wager on the fact your system board WON'T check out ok. In fact, I'd guarantee you its pooched. Snap up that system board asap, especially if its reasonably priced. The OSC board, maybe, but the system board, for sure.
About your signal chain...Just by way of info.
I have an HD Fury Gamer Edition which is fed from a Monoprice 4x1 powered switcher with equalizer (this one: http://snipurl.com/23yo8 [www_monoprice_com] ) I have an HD FTA box with HDMI out, a PS3 with HDMI out, HD A1, and DVHS vcr with HDMI out feeding the switcher. The output from the HD Fury Gamer Edition goes to my RTC2200's VGA input for gamma boost, and from there to my NEC ISS for distribution to my ancient Marquee, presentation monitor, and XG1350 that I have on a coffee table. Several times I've noted that something in the chain has given up the connection and sends a scrambled mess of a signal to the displays, they HATE this signal. The monitor flashes a picture on and off, but is otherwise unfazed, the Marquee gives a VSynch error message and doesn't display anything, but the XG tries like crazy to synch to it and almost kills itself trying. I've already had to shut it down, emergency style to take it out of an ever increasing cycle of flashes and squeals as it tries to synch.
I'm not saying that you can do anything about it NOW, but it wouldn't surprise me if the signal chain you have, which is similar to mine save for the switcher at the end, was the culprit in ruining your system board. Specifically, when HDMI connections "go bad", they can go REALLY, REALLY bad, from what I've seen... |
Hmm...I have a similar switch but mine is Rev. 2.5 and I paid a little more for it than the current Rev.3.0 unit. I might try an HD Fury power supply and see if I can eliminate the switch completely. I have room for an AC adapter to plug into the back of the Onkyo.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Curt should be receiving my boards tomorrow. I hope to know something soon about their condition.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Curt should be receiving my boards tomorrow. I hope to know something soon about their condition. |
My bet is on "pooched" ....
Did you get the replacement system board that you were hoping to that was close to you ?
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Got a system board and oscillator board in the mail today.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Have you gotten any clear instructions for checking for voltage on your neutral ?
After you've done that, why not throw those puppies in and see if they fix the problem ? *(I'm betting on "YES" they fix your problem, and with only the system board, assuming you had your original OSC board...).
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: |
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Doug explained it to me but I'm still a bit fuzzy. I think I can check for voltage between one of the BNC connectors on the projector and a source cable. I sent my convergence board to Curt as well and don't have an extra one of those so I'm going to have to wait anyway. Doug told me to send all of them.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Finally, the boards are there. Waiting anxiously to hear what is not working properly.
Status: DELIVERED
Last Scan: 4/16/2008 4:07:00 PM DELIVERED SURREY, CA
Delivered To: SURREY, CA
Delivery Date: Wednesday, April 16, 2008
Delivery Time: 4:07:00 PM
Delivery Location: FRONT DESK
Signed By: HARPREET
Carrier: UPS
Service: Canada Standard
Expected: Apr. 16, 2008 12:00:00 AM
UPS Tracking Number: 1Z7A068R6871251507
Scan History:
4/16/2008 4:07:00 PM DELIVERED SURREY, CA
4/16/2008 7:00:00 AM OUT FOR DELIVERY ANNACIS ISLAND, BC CA
4/16/2008 3:00:00 AM ARRIVAL SCAN ANNACIS ISLAND, BC CA
4/15/2008 4:59:00 PM DEPARTURE SCAN RICHMOND, BC CA
4/15/2008 4:34:00 PM LOCATION SCAN RICHMOND, BC CA
4/15/2008 3:19:00 PM IMPORT SCAN RICHMOND, BC CA
4/15/2008 2:22:00 PM ARRIVAL SCAN RICHMOND, BC CA
4/15/2008 5:54:00 AM DEPARTURE SCAN REDMOND, WA US
4/15/2008 1:01:00 AM ARRIVAL SCAN REDMOND, WA US
4/10/2008 10:21:00 AM DEPARTURE SCAN HODGKINS, IL US
4/10/2008 9:05:00 AM HUB SCAN HODGKINS, IL US
4/10/2008 7:21:00 AM LOCATION SCAN HODGKINS, IL US
4/10/2008 7:00:00 AM UNLOAD SCAN HODGKINS, IL US
4/10/2008 4:38:00 AM ARRIVAL SCAN HODGKINS, IL US
4/9/2008 5:00:00 PM DEPARTURE SCAN WEST COLUMBIA, SC US
4/9/2008 12:28:00 PM HUB SCAN WEST COLUMBIA, SC US
4/9/2008 7:41:00 AM ARRIVAL SCAN WEST COLUMBIA, SC US
4/9/2008 2:55:00 AM DEPARTURE SCAN GREENSBORO, NC US
4/9/2008 1:47:00 AM LOCATION SCAN GREENSBORO, NC US
4/9/2008 12:53:00 AM ARRIVAL SCAN GREENSBORO, NC US
4/8/2008 11:14:00 PM DEPARTURE SCAN CHARLOTTE, NC US
4/8/2008 9:57:00 PM ORIGIN SCAN CHARLOTTE, NC US
4/8/2008 6:30:00 PM BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED US
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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I received word from Curt today that my system board was indeed bad. He was able to reproduce the same no sync condition on his test set and confirmed that once it finally did sync to something that it was scrambled and unwatchable. My working oscillator and convergence boards should make their way back to me soon and I hope to pair those with my recently acquired system board. Hopefully, that will put me back in business. I finally put the voltmeter on the outlet my projector uses and confirmed there is no voltage present on the ground so the outlet checks out ok. Confirmed 120v and inspected the connections and wire insulation, all look good.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Do I get a prize for calling it right back on page five ?
Also, did you ever confirm your scan plug orientation by comparing how they are plugged in on your 110 with how they are plugged in on the 852 ? I wonder if this could have been the cause of the demise of the original system board ?
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | Do I get a prize for calling it right back on page five ?
Also, did you ever confirm your scan plug orientation by comparing how they are plugged in on your 110 with how they are plugged in on the 852 ? I wonder if this could have been the cause of the demise of the original system board ? |
Paul, of course you were right! You can have your pick of anything you would like from the Dollar Store 
Funny you should mention the scan plugs. I have not compared the two projectors but I did remove the plugs on the 852 and plug them back in to make sure they were tight and on correctly. While doing this I observed something that I had not noticed before. I'm not sure if there is any significance but the scan plug wires had bits of surgical tape on them with a dot of colored marker on the leads of two of the plugs. One was marked with a blue dot and another was marked with a red dot. I assume now that perhaps this was to help identify which scan plug went to which tube. Well, to make a long story bareable, I THINK that the scan plug for the blue or red was plugged into the green and the scan plug for the green was plugged into the blue or some combination of that. There was no tape or marking on what I presume to be the green scan plug and I believe that plug was plugged into the pins labeled for blue. Once I noticed this I did change them around putting the blue marked plug on blue, the red marked plug on red and the unmarked plug on green. This was before I had sent the boards off to Curt so I did of course crank the machine up to see if this made any difference. It did not. However, if these plugs being mixed up did cause the system board failure then I would not expect it to be made right after I changed them back. Any clue if this could be the cause of the failure and am I correct to assume that these tape markings correspond to tube colors?
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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If the scan plugs were oriented correctly on their pegs, just being on the wrong colors is unlikely to have caused anything detrimental, but I'm just guessing, I'm not a technician by any stretch.... The tape with the colored dots is common in NEC's, it does denote the the tube color, a handy reference so you don't have to trace the wires back every time to confirm which tube which connector belongs to.
I don't know what function the dummy plug serves, exactly, but by your description early in the thread, I'd bet its not on properly, which is why I suggested you compare the plugs in the 110, which we presume to be correct, with the plugs in the 852. Is it possible the orientation of the dummy plug, if incorrect, could allow the scan plugs to be placed on the wrong pegs ?
I just remember the one time I miss plugged a vertical scan yoke connector from a Marquee by one pin and was *sure* everything was fine, when in fact the projector would not run and may have caused some damage(I can't remember exactly the outcome, only that I was chagrined to discover my careless mistake was the cause of the projector not working....).
I'm also fairly sure the manual is wrong when showing how to change the plugs, I recall experiencing the same confusion you did when I first encountered an XG, which was not relieved until I ignored the manual and used the guide to the scan plug placement which is silkscreened right onto the board.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I did have some confusion about the dummy plug early on but once I realized that it should not be forced on then I knew I was following the instructions too literally. I had the plug at the correct end of the board with all pins in a row as they should be but the dummy plug fits onto those pins easily in one position (180 degrees of what the manual shows) and barely fits on with some force if you follow exactly the position of what the manual shows.
If you look at the orientation of the dummy plug here. Unplug it and flip it around 180 degrees, plug it back into the same pins and THAT is the way it fits on easily. If you try to install it as in the picture it either won't go on or you have to force it which we know is not correct. The location of the pins to put the plug onto is correct in this drawing. The direction of the holes in the top of the plug is the opposite of what actually works.
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dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Dummy plug:
The dummy is just a connection from one side to the other...put it on the way it fits without breaking the traces on the deflection board.
Verifying source connections and properties as working and 'right':
Use the donor 1100 to check the signals as well as how the dummy plug is put on. A working XG is a test bed for troubleshooting this stuff. Doug
Put the tube in.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| dbaisey wrote: | Dummy plug:
The dummy is just a connection from one side to the other...put it on the way it fits without breaking the traces on the deflection board.
Verifying source connections and properties as working and 'right':
Use the donor 1100 to check the signals as well as how the dummy plug is put on. A working XG is a test bed for troubleshooting this stuff. Doug
Put the tube in. |
I was afraid you were going to say that Doug. I just got the 110 pushed into the closet because the wife was giving me hell for it sitting on the floor for over a month now. Just like a woman, she never misses an opportunity to remind me, "you had one working fine but no, you couldn't be happy with that, now look at this mess." 
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