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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: Interchangeable parts XG852 / XG110 |
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Just curious if there are any parts that are NOT interchangeable between these two? Have the XG-110 up on the ceiling and eyeing an XG-852 for possible parts harvesting.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Interchangeable parts XG852 / XG110 |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Just curious if there are any parts that are NOT interchangeable between these two? Have the XG-110 up on the ceiling and eyeing an XG-852 for possible parts harvesting. |
Unless the 110 is an LC, you'll want to put the 852 up instead. Its quite an improvement if you ask me, swap the best tubes into the 852 and then enjoy the better setup you'll get from the 852.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Interchangeable parts XG852 / XG110 |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | | dropzone7 wrote: | | Just curious if there are any parts that are NOT interchangeable between these two? Have the XG-110 up on the ceiling and eyeing an XG-852 for possible parts harvesting. |
Unless the 110 is an LC, you'll want to put the 852 up instead. Its quite an improvement if you ask me, swap the best tubes into the 852 and then enjoy the better setup you'll get from the 852. |
Really? Even though the 852 has a lesser scanning rate? Not doubting you but just curious what the improvement might be.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, lesser scanning rate is fairly immaterial, how many times are you actually USING a scanning rate above the 852's max ?
I've owned a couple of XG 75's, and 1350's, only one 110. They're all from the same family and perform pretty much the same, except for the top scan rate. The 852 is to them like a PG Xtra is to the Plus. It has improved controls and allows for a very exacting setup.
The last 852 I had was one I thought I'd keep forever, I took a full day to situate it in the EXACT correct position relative to the screen, then performed the best setup I could on it. It was dead on from turn on, and didn't drift in over 3 months. It was the sharpest NEC I've had too, with scan lines EASILY visible at 1024x768(used to be my most commonly used resolution...) from my seating position about 13 feet away.
852's also have MCAT, NEC's last version of auto convergence. It works really well, and helps to produce an image that is as good on the sides and in the corners as it is in the center of the image.
When I say the 852 has improved controls, I don't mean there are any extra ones, but what I noticed was that with my 852 getting the exact results were quite a bit easier. It *seemed* to me that NEC had improved the functioning of the complex set of controls that it has.
And the MCAT made convergence a three minute affair, instead of an hour and a half....
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. The MCAT feature, does this require an add on device like the ACON system with a camera or is it all software driven from within the projector's controls? Thanks for the info up to this point, very much appreciated.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Interesting. The MCAT feature, does this require an add on device like the ACON system with a camera or is it all software driven from within the projector's controls? Thanks for the info up to this point, very much appreciated. |
The auto convergence feature on the last versions of the NEC's didn't require anything extra. You do your geometry(Alignment), then pick the MCAT(I think that was what it was called, either that or ACAT), then follow the instructions, which were to move 9 small crosshairs that come up, then push ENTER when you're done, and the projector does everything else. I found it to be very quick, accurate, and stable.
I was expecting it to be unstable, at least, but the inputs I converged using that were just as stable if not more so than the ones I'd done from scratch...
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Elaine, I was curious if I will run into problems if I try to put the 852 in the same mounting position as the 110 is currently at. I noticed in the manuals that the recommended throw distance is different for these models and it would be a real pain for me to move my mount now. I'm not exactly sure of my current throw off the top of my head but I do know that it's closer than the spec at the suggestion of others here that suggested the NEC specs were very conservative. My screen is 9' wide and if I'm not mistaken then I am 1.33 x screen width right now or about 12' back.
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kschmit2
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1141
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Runco suggests 1.33x screen width for PJs with HD-144 lenses.
Kai
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| kschmit2 wrote: | Runco suggests 1.33x screen width for PJs with HD-144 lenses.
Kai |
Sounds like I'm right on then. I'm just not sure what lenses this 852 has on it yet.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Elaine, I was curious if I will run into problems if I try to put the 852 in the same mounting position as the 110 is currently at. I noticed in the manuals that the recommended throw distance is different for these models and it would be a real pain for me to move my mount now. I'm not exactly sure of my current throw off the top of my head but I do know that it's closer than the spec at the suggestion of others here that suggested the NEC specs were very conservative. My screen is 9' wide and if I'm not mistaken then I am 1.33 x screen width right now or about 12' back. |
I'm the wrong one to ask about NEC throw distances. I do NOT agree with the common advice to place NEC's so much closer than recommended by NEC. I've owned enough of them to have discovered that getting the best(ie. sharpest and most stable image possible) from an NEC is only really possible at or VERY close to the factory throw distance.
NEC made conservative setup parameters so the edges of the image would be as good as the center, the farther from the recommended throw you get, the harder it is to focus and converge the edges. I prefer my image to be like a giant version of a high quality 14" computer monitor, focussed as well in the farthest corner as it is in the very middle, as well converged at the extremest edge as it is in the center, stable enough to watch critically right from startup. If you deviate from the recommended throw by a large amount, you pretty much give up most of these things, especially the focus....
But, to each his own.
And, having said that... If you have already setup your 110, I'm SURE you'll be able to setup the 852 in the same place just fine.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Great, thanks Elaine. I was hoping that this would be a fairly painless procedure and the fact that I wont have to move my mount really helps. I'm still a relative newb to CRT although I have come a long way with this XG110. The thing I'm most concerned with now is doing the tube swap. I followed Curt's guide and removed all three tubes from my 6PG over the weekend and it was very easy. It's putting them back in that I'm worried about. I know that the XG tube swap should be similar but the magnetics are what I'm afraid of. I just want to make sure that I'm not making a lot of work for myself. Astig is something that still escapes me and I'm kind of worried that assuming I do get the tube swapped out and the machine running again, I won't get the magnetics adjustments down again. Oh well, you only live once.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, question for those of you that have swapped tubes from one machine to another. If assuming that the "new" projector has been calibrated before and no pots have been tweaked, magnetics are still siliconed in place and astig is good on the machine. Now, I remove the green tube from that projector and install a better condition green from the "donor" projector which is my XG110. IF I am careful to reinstall the magnetics in precisely the same place that they were on the old tube, should I conceivably be able to crank it up and go with only a few minor adjustments or do I have a long hard road ahead of me to get back to where I was? My fear is that I do this tube swap and end up with two projectors that I can't personally get going again.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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NEC's are a HUGE bitch when it comes to tube swaps...a HUGE bitch....
If you swap full sets of tubes, you can conceivably just use AKB to get going again fairly quickly. But, in my experience, when swapping just one tube, its *usually* a crap shoot if you'll be able to get away without doing the dreaded reference mechanical white balance.
Only way to know is to try it, really. Keep the old tube handy and mark all of your positions so you can return the old tube in case you end up not liking the results of the swap.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Great...sounds like fun. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone. The whole point of this exercise is to replace my XG110 with the XG852 which has fewer hours and which most here say is a better unit. The 852 has a toasted green so I can't really use it as is. The 110 has a fairly new green tube and very little wear on the others. I don't have a scope, colorimeter or anything like that so the best I could do is confirm voltages and try to fumble my way through the G2 procedure.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dropzone7 wrote: | | Great...sounds like fun. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone. The whole point of this exercise is to replace my XG110 with the XG852 which has fewer hours and which most here say is a better unit. The 852 has a toasted green so I can't really use it as is. The 110 has a fairly new green tube and very little wear on the others. I don't have a scope, colorimeter or anything like that so the best I could do is confirm voltages and try to fumble my way through the G2 procedure. |
I'd say swap all three tubes into the 852, you have a better chance of not having to muck with stuff if they are three "matched" tubes.
I've only done about a dozen or so swaps on NEC's though, I wish someone with more experience would chime in, confirm or deny my experiences.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Elaine Benes wrote: | | dropzone7 wrote: | | Great...sounds like fun. Maybe I should just leave well enough alone. The whole point of this exercise is to replace my XG110 with the XG852 which has fewer hours and which most here say is a better unit. The 852 has a toasted green so I can't really use it as is. The 110 has a fairly new green tube and very little wear on the others. I don't have a scope, colorimeter or anything like that so the best I could do is confirm voltages and try to fumble my way through the G2 procedure. |
I'd say swap all three tubes into the 852, you have a better chance of not having to muck with stuff if they are three "matched" tubes.
I've only done about a dozen or so swaps on NEC's though, I wish someone with more experience would chime in, confirm or deny my experiences. |
I have not actually seen this 852 yet so I can't really confirm (other than by photos) if the red and blue are in better condition than those in my 110. I'm not opposed to changing all of the tubes out if there is a chance of preserving things with the 852 that way. Could I try just the green first and see how it goes or will it be too late at that point?
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Mark_A_W
Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 3068
Location: Sunny Melbourne Australia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: |
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I disagree completely about needing a mech white balance when swapping tubes. AKB and the normal colour controls are more than enough - do you think the NEC service guy did a mech white balance???
Elaine, were you running out of range on the Kelvin Colour Controls? Why else would it need a mech white balance after a tube swap?
Is the 110 a 1100 or a 1101LC? And yes, you will need to redo astig if you swap tubes.
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mark_A_W wrote: | I disagree completely about needing a mech white balance when swapping tubes. AKB and the normal colour controls are more than enough - do you think the NEC service guy did a mech white balance???
Elaine, were you running out of range on the Kelvin Colour Controls? Why else would it need a mech white balance after a tube swap?
Is the 110 a 1100 or a 1101LC? And yes, you will need to redo astig if you swap tubes. |
Mark, I hope you are right. Both projectors are AC units. The 852 was ISF calibrated years ago and the owner claims to have never touched anything but static convergence every now and then. The green is toasted but the green in my 110 is almost new. Astig I think I can handle although I have never had to do mechanical astig on the XG. It's going to be virgin territory for me either way. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance that the swap will be worth it.
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Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Personally, I've never thought in *necessary* to do a ref/mech/white, I have helped do it twice with friends projectors, but any time I've changed tubes, I've been able to get a decent enough picture the same way you use. I'm not all that picky though, if it looks good, I'm satisfied.
However, I think to do it absolutely *right* it would be better to do a base white balance IF one had the skill/tools. But I certainly don't think its ALWAYS necessary, sorry for making it sound like that.
Comparative to Electrohome's, for instance, which are dead easy to swap tubes into, where setting up drives/cuts takes only a few minutes, tweaking an NEC to look good has taken me much, much longer.
Specifically, no, I've never run out of range on the controls after a tube swap, but I have had to do and redo, and redo again to get an image I thought was "good enough".
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dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, I'm curious and I have no idea so I'm asking. Why would astig be required after swapping the tube if the magnets are siliconed and I was careful to place everything back where it was on the old tube? Is the tube not a "dumb" device which is dependent on the position of the coils and magnets? Are tubes that much different from one to another? I just want to understand as much about this as I can before I start tearing things apart. Thanks to both Elaine and yourself for the input thus far.
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