| Author |
Message |
Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hook that VCR you have that will at least allow you to see the menu's up to it and make sure you've changed the orientation in the menu to the same as the scan plugs are oriented.
Did you change the scan plugs ? If so, double, triple check them. I doubt that is the issue, as it would affect the entire image, but those pictures just don't look like what I've seen when its the "scrambled mess" problem.
On the bright side, the color looks pretty good ! And its very bright...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MikeEby
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5237
Location: Osceola, Indiana
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Have you taken the RTC2200 transcoder out the signal path? It seems like I read someone with a Barco or Ehome was having issues running the wrong sync polarity out of the RTC2200. It might be a good idea just to try it if you haven't.
Mike
_________________
Doing HD since the last century!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I can get my 1352 to do exactly what I see in your pictures. For me it will happen if I switch the DirecTV HD box from 1080i to 720p. The signal path for me is HDMI from the DTV H20 Sat receiver into a moome DVI card. The other odd thing is that the pj continued to use the 1080i Signal Entry as if the projector didn't recognize the signal correctly. I know I can get 720p to work but I'll need to play with it to report how I did it the last time. I know I have all new signal entries in my signal 1-10 positions (I first got this pj 2 months ago as the 2nd owner). I seem to remember moving the old ones way up the chart. Not sure if it is smart to eliminate them but I bet I did.
I would suggest trying to feed the projector from a non-HDMI source to see if that avoids the problem (to check if this is related to the FURY being in the signal path).
I will see if I can get this to come and go at will on mine and let you know.
_________________
Jerry
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Elaine Benes wrote: | Hook that VCR you have that will at least allow you to see the menu's up to it and make sure you've changed the orientation in the menu to the same as the scan plugs are oriented.
Did you change the scan plugs ? If so, double, triple check them. I doubt that is the issue, as it would affect the entire image, but those pictures just don't look like what I've seen when its the "scrambled mess" problem.
On the bright side, the color looks pretty good ! And its very bright... |
Well, the scan plugs were the last thing I did before I mounted it on the ceiling so I'm sure they are correct but I will check anything at this point to be sure.
| Quote: | Have you taken the RTC2200 transcoder out the signal path? It seems like I read someone with a Barco or Ehome was having issues running the wrong sync polarity out of the RTC2200. It might be a good idea just to try it if you haven't.
|
I had not really thought of that but I will try it. I don't have another transcoder to try though. I guess I could get some BNC to component adapters and use the component input on the projector. I just don't know why it would be an issue now after working fine before. I ran this projector with the same sources and video chain on the floor for days before doing the tube swap and ceiling mounting it. Could I have screwed something up in the tube change procedure?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dropzone,
I tried a few things to duplicate your problem on my XG. I found that I can get the pj to go from scrambled sync to normal by selecting input A by hitting 1 on the remote and going back to input C by hitting 7 (the moome card is in slot C). I think you are using only the main input (slot A) so your alternative would be to connect your DVD signal and switch from S-vid by hitting 2 and going back to HDMI by hitting 1.
Here is my less safe option.. if you were about to put the pj on the curb anyway then you won't mind taking the risk of erasing memories in the ENTRY LIST. I remember when I first got my XG that it did the same thing you are seeing. The one sure thing that got rid of it was to first get the problem signal to be initially seen as a NEW SIGNAL by getting rid of the old entries in the entry list. In my case I deleted anything below 50 in the list Once I did that, the picture would lock on unscrambled but of course not converged. I could then make a new SIGNAL ENTRY for this signal and it worked fine.
_________________
Jerry
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jerry, thanks for putting in the time to do all of that. I will check into this later today. The wife and I are headed to the hospital right now to see her mom. It's been a busy two weeks.
_________________
"Coffee is for Closers."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jarseneau wrote: |
In my case I deleted anything below 50 in the list Once I did that, the picture would lock on unscrambled but of course not converged. I could then make a new SIGNAL ENTRY for this signal and it worked fine. |
And the reason you delete the low numbered entries is because the higher numbered ones are the factory entries that the projector arrives from the factory with. IF they weren't screwed around with, what you end up doing is basically resetting the memory condition to the way it was before anyone added to the confusion...
It gives you the best chance of using un-corrupted data...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I tried connecting the DVD player again and after several minutes of the screen flashing "NO INPUT" and "NEW SIGNAL" like it has been doing, it locked onto a PAL signal again for some reason. I believe Doug said it was the closest thing in the list and maybe that's why. I verified the scan plugs are correct and that the orientation is set correctly in the menus. Source lock is set to "OFF". I am in "STANDALONE" mode. I tried removing the HD Fury from the connection and just running component out from the HD DVD player to my transcoder, not using any HDMI sources. The projector finally locked onto a component signal but displayed no image and the menus was very scrambled. Connected HDMI and HD Fury back together and let the thing run a while. My 1080i sources, as they have been, would flash on the screen for a second and then go away and then come back, eventually locking onto something with an image similar to those I posted earlier. The menus are not readable in this state so I don't even know what entry it's finding. I did cycle through the inputs while it was locked onto that PAL line and the menus were readable. One thing I noticed, not sure if it matters. Almost every line showed sync polarity as HD- and VD- with a few exceptions. I found a few entries with HD- and VD+. I deleted those thinking that they were the exception rather than the norm and perhaps this was an issue. No changes. I gave up again.
_________________
"Coffee is for Closers."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Should "SYNC CONTROL" be set to AUTO, G-SYNC OR TRI-SYNC? I have been using AUTO as far as I know. I'm using a 5 BNC cable with H and V connections and am using 1080i sources only.
Another thought, the RTC2200 transcoder has adjustable sync polarity. Should I try to set it to positive vertical sync and see what happens? This was never an issue before however. I can't see what my scrambled signal settings are to know what it's getting now.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Drop,
This is turning into a can of worms.
While your doing family stuff send the System, Osc and D-conv board to Curt to check in a version 3 machine so you would know for sure what you need. Doug
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jarseneau
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Location: WI
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I always have SYNC CONTROL set to AUTO.
Have you tried erasing maybe the first 10 SIGNAL ENTRIES?
_________________
Jerry
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jarseneau wrote: | I always have SYNC CONTROL set to AUTO.
Have you tried erasing maybe the first 10 SIGNAL ENTRIES? |
No, I thought the first few entries were the factory default entries so I have not deleted any of those.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dbaisey wrote: | Drop,
This is turning into a can of worms.
While your doing family stuff send the System, Osc and D-conv board to Curt to check in a version 3 machine so you would know for sure what you need. Doug |
Can of worms? Worms I can handle. This is more like a can of scorpions. Every way I turn I'm getting bit. Again Doug, why can't you be on the east coast? We have coffee here too you know! 
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dropzone7 wrote: | | jarseneau wrote: | I always have SYNC CONTROL set to AUTO.
Have you tried erasing maybe the first 10 SIGNAL ENTRIES? |
No, I thought the first few entries were the factory default entries so I have not deleted any of those. |
Not so, the first 10 lines are blank from the factory, the factory entries are in the 50's. They do this on purpose to make it easy to keep them.
PS: There used to be a very, very capable NEC tech in Maryland(I think thats where he was...) Chuck Williams ?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The start of the input list depends on the serial number run and model. It will usually start with the video input NTSC then have Pal under it. If you dont have the NTSC signal entry then it was deleted so the next would be Pal for it to grab or Pal is stored for default of that block
You can have signals entered in the start of the RGB input from a previous owner and this could have been stored to default. You didnt give freqs so no clue as to what you have. Default area the left side are the IMM blocks and the right side is what was actually stored for any given block by 'someone'
Voltage on earth to neutral no answer so I cant help on that either.
I think its best for you to send the boards to Curt. He can look at the settings also. Doug
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Elaine Benes
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1416
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dbaisey wrote: | The start of the input list depends on the serial number run and model. It will usually start with the video input NTSC then have Pal under it. If you dont have the NTSC signal entry then it was deleted so the next would be Pal for it to grab or Pal is stored for default of that block
|
But you don't say if the factory lines start at 1 or 50 ? The "start of the input list" doesn't say whether that start is on line 1 or line 50. Also, what serial number range has the factory input memories where ?
Isn't there a simple way to check if the factory memories are still there or not ? Can't he simply page through to the 50's and SEE if they're there ? I understand there's no way to tell if they are INTACT or not, but simply checking if they're THERE isn't difficult.
And IF the factory memories are there, and IF they appear to be intact, isn't it a simple action to just start deleting memories at line 1(not deleting the one that is being used by the vcr, obviously...), then trying the 1080i sources after each deletion ?
What would be the negative side of this course of action, especially considering currently, the projector is an un-usable state ?
He can't make it WORSE, can he ? It can't really be MORE un-usable, can it ? I mean, in the end, it'll likely be in need of a new system board ANYWAY, so how can deleting a few memories in a logical way be THAT much worse than the way it is now ?
With the value of these projectors dropping by the second as we discuss issues, its kind of pointless to do things with the old logic. In the end, it will still be a decision to part it out, or pay more for a repair than the projector is likely worth...
dropzone7: Have you tried letting it try and synch to different frequency blocks directly from your computer ? The default blocks are laid out in a technical bulletin posted in the Tips section http://www.curtpalme.com/NECXG_IMMS_Frequencies.shtm , you can hook up a computer, change resolutions with the computer to get ones that hit in the middle of the various frequency ranges, and test each block that way. The XG1350 that I had with a similar problem had a single range still intact which would allow new entries to be made/saved, etc. Perhaps it will turn out there is a similar usable block that you can utilize ?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dbaisey
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 821
Location: Southern Cal LA / Seattle WA
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Elaine,
Most have the 'hit' lines starting in the 50's lines. Some will have a duplicate set on page one. Dont confuse what is stored for 100" diag front ceiling from the factory (vesa standards) with what has been stored for a application that can be different. In a perfect world it will say 'Unregistered signal' and grab what is the closest. Any of these lines can be wrote over using the same name and you wouldnt know. Any of these that have been wrote over can be stored to default even if corrupt. If you select change default from the signal entry it should show in the default area. If you start deleting you can be deleting what is being used for default in a given block and why I say dont do it unless you know what your doing.
If the default area says 31.5 kHz then send it 480P BUT what if it was running 48Hz or Pal, the kHz should give a clue as to what was used when it was stored but if the oscillator is running away then what is it?
Last I went on a job yesterday and a BR player booted to neg neg sync, when the actual movie started it went to pos pos. Think about it. Doug
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Okay, took some pictures tonight while it's at least syncing to the S-Video connection. These are all of my signal entry pages. Not sure if this tells you anything or not. The entry at line#1 is my last known good syncing signal before this all happened. I renamed it TEST and moved it to this first position from line #68 I believe.
[/img]
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Default Data screen
_________________
"Coffee is for Closers."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dropzone7
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1069
Location: Charlotte, NC
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
Shots of line#12 which is what it wants to lock onto and the only way I can currently read menus.
_________________
"Coffee is for Closers."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
