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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | <geek on> I'm a "mostly ugly bag of water" </geek>
Name that quote ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
It doesn't ring a bell, but your history tells us it HAS to be from a Star Wars movie. 
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| MYoung wrote: | | ecrabb wrote: | | Hell, I bet if I took what I spent on the HD DVD player and movies, and divided it by all the movies we've watched and the number of people we've had watch with us, it would probably still be less than what we'd spent on movie tickets at the theater - and for that we'd have absolutely nothing to show for it. |
I'm $700 invested in HD DVD -- HD-A1 bought used in mid 2006 for around $300, HD-A2 bought new in late 2007 for $100, and $300 for 12 titles. I have watched 8 movies with 20 people. So that's $35 a showing per person. Ouch. Then lets consider that I bought a 1292Q and Lumagen VisionHDP about a year ago. I'm $1700 invested in that equipment. That makes $2400 for that particular setup. That's $120 a showing per person! Wow, now I'm depressed. I guess the consolation is that I must have somewhat of a life not spending too much time watching movies. Of course, I just realized I've probably seen more movies in the theater than on my home theater setup! Maybe I'm pacing myself. I have 10 HD DVDs I've not watched yet so I could probably push the figure from $35 a person to $14 a person watching all of those. |
I'm afraid to calculate that. I'm sure the results would be depressing. 
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KennyG
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| JustGreg wrote: | | KennyG wrote: | | JustGreg wrote: | Why not a check?...Warner got $500 million to convert.  I'm sure NetDix whored themselves for alot less.
Greg |
Stop the lies...Warner got NOTHING to convert, it was a business decision, and anyone who says different is ignorant...or just pissed because they took a chance, and lost. SO WHAT???
Everyone who's bought into HD disc took the same chance, we all knew that eventually one who have to loose.
And yes, their IS a reason Netflix is dropping HD-DVD, it's called business sense. The few they loose in business will more than be made up for by cutting their HD stock in half...besides no matter what anyone says, they'll be back. It's simple, if your into HT, then HD is the only way to go, what other choice do you have...buy Blu-Rays? or Rent them? OR simply go without? 99.9 are not going to go without.
Lucky I sold my HD-DVD the day after Warner's decision, it didn't hurt so much. |
Thems fightin words. I take exception to the first three words of your reply there Kenny.  I HAD researched but hadn't dug deep enough to find definitive proof. Misinformed maybe, but a 'liar' I'm not. But OK, I withdraw my comment... but only for lack of proof.
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner:_No_Payoff_for_Move_to_Blu-ray/1327
I'm not pissed that I dropped a little cash on one side of the fence. phhht I've pissed away alot more in less meaningful ways. My storage room is full of hardware and software that are icons of by-gone technologies. The thing about those piles of 'junk' is there were options available when I purchased them.
I simply don't like the fact that consumers (me) are being deprived of choice. Sony used every rotten trick in the book to prevent adoption of a standard that was anything other than theirs, and which was/is nowhere near as polished as HD-DVD; although it too is only in it's 3G stage. Sony won't fix anything because their technology is embedded in another of their products which is historically involved in a battle all it's own. (Re:PS3).
Hell, they (Sony) wanted Blu-Ray media to be encased in an expensive caddy initially until members of the DVD Forum created their own blue laser caddy-less technology. (Enter HD-DVD)
Sony sabotaged every vote for format adoption until their three dissenting sitting members were replaced on the DVD Forum. In the process, consumers lost in more ways than one. I can't find any numbers stating how many $$$'s have been spent on this whole mess but worldwide I'd hazard a guess it's in the billions. But it all could have been avoided early on if Sony had just adhered to the democratic process of majority rules within the DVD Forum.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
Fine. Sony wins. I won't buy a Sony player tho. We'll see how all the Sony fanboys feel when the only game in town comes at a non-competitive price. Sony will have relatively unimpeded and unregulated control of that format. (There will be the DVD Forum..still chaired by Toshiba, and government agencies) You said it yourself, "99.9 are not going to go without." GOTCHYA!
It's all going to be a moot point shortly anyway as delivered digital content and storage matures; (REAL uncompressed HD, not HD-Lite) Not even Sony will be able to wheel-N-deal and weasel their way around that.
If my facts are incorrect I have no problem being corrected, as I want to understand this subject too. Name calling is offensive, childish, and counter productive.
Greg |
Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but I'd heard that line of BS one to many times. The fact is, if your helping spread a rumour then it's a lie. I've alway thought spending a false rumour is the same as lying...is it not?
I find spreading rumours to be just as offensive, childish and counter productive. So if we can get rid of the false rumours then we can all act like adults!...and I promise to be one too!
Anyway, the real problem here is we should have never had a chioce of HD formats, it should have been one or the other...just like CD, and DVD, we had one choice, end of story...AND they both sold like hot cakes!
Now, this silly format war has set HD disc back a year or so, but perhaps the masses will now start jumping on board, and we'll get one format that will carry us for a few years, because I'd sure like to replace about 400 of my SD titles with HD, and the only way that happens is if the masses buy in.
I really dont' care about the politics of Sony or any other company, most of my gear is American (or at least engineered here), except the source player, and that's usually a Denon. So perhaps I'm politically centered here!
The nice thing about BD is that many companies are making the players...and if you buy one of those, then Sony only gets a couple of your dollars.
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wedge
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 66
Location: B.C.,Canada
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| Phil Smith wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | <geek on> I'm a "mostly ugly bag of water" </geek>
Name that quote ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
It doesn't ring a bell, but your history tells us it HAS to be from a Star Wars movie. |
No I think he is referring to St TNG still, but it was quoted from the Nanites that were accidentally released by vunderkind Wil Wheaton.
& If I am right & win a cigar,thats actually pretty sad that I know that.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| wedge wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | <geek on> I'm a "mostly ugly bag of water" </geek>
Name that quote ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
It doesn't ring a bell, but your history tells us it HAS to be from a Star Wars movie. |
No I think he is referring to St TNG still, but it was quoted from the Nanites that were accidentally released by vunderkind Wil Wheaton.
& If I am right & win a cigar,thats actually pretty sad that I know that. |
Give that man a SEEGAR!
You got it. Star Treck TNG, it wans't nanites however. It was the indiginous life forms on the planet they were trying to tera form. The tera formers drained the water table and caused great pain. When the captain used the univsal traslator that was what they called humans. "Mostly ugly bags of water"
Feel free to corect me. I only saw that eppisode once FIRST RUN 8) so probably 1988-89.
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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"Ugly bags of mostly water," I think. But I cheated, I don't even *remember* that episode. And I'm SURE I saw all of them at least once!
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MikeEby wrote: | I’m even more pissed because silicon based life lost to carbon based life. So there!!! 
Mike |
If it's any consulation, there's at least some partially based silicon life running around out there. I think Z-Photo even has a few pics of them.
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Aubrey
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12088
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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That's siliconE, Aubrey! One letter makes a biiig difference..... 
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Chips, t*ts... whatever. They're both great and they're both a pain in the ass.
SC
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 18114
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Joust wrote: | its a more interesting topic.
Kal, please start a brewing area. Whats a Home theatre without a homebrew ???? Just a big TV for the kids to play video games on... |
We tried that. Not enough interest and it doesn't make sense since there's only 4-5 people that would likely post. Just start a thread or two in the "Off-topic" area. There's already a few in there about beer.
Kal
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My basement/HT/bar/brewery build 2.0
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| KennyG wrote: | Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but I'd heard that line of BS one to many times. The fact is, if your helping spread a rumour then it's a lie. I've alway thought spending a false rumour is the same as lying...is it not?
I find spreading rumours to be just as offensive, childish and counter productive. So if we can get rid of the false rumours then we can all act like adults!...and I promise to be one too!
Anyway, the real problem here is we should have never had a chioce of HD formats, it should have been one or the other...just like CD, and DVD, we had one choice, end of story...AND they both sold like hot cakes!
Now, this silly format war has set HD disc back a year or so, but perhaps the masses will now start jumping on board, and we'll get one format that will carry us for a few years, because I'd sure like to replace about 400 of my SD titles with HD, and the only way that happens is if the masses buy in.
I really dont' care about the politics of Sony or any other company, most of my gear is American (or at least engineered here), except the source player, and that's usually a Denon. So perhaps I'm politically centered here!
The nice thing about BD is that many companies are making the players...and if you buy one of those, then Sony only gets a couple of your dollars. |
It's all good man. I have a tendancy to open mouth/insert foot without doing enough research at times.  I'm working on that. (I aspire to be like Clarence when I grow up!  ) I don't agree that the propagation of information that proves to be incorrect qualifies as a lie however. Take for instance: Ancient myths, Urban Legends, childhood bedtime stories, etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lie 2 (l)
n.
1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.
v. lied, ly·ing (lng), lies
v.intr.
1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.
v.tr.
To cause to be in a specific condition or affect in a specific way by telling falsehoods: You have lied yourself into trouble.
Idiom:
lie through one's teeth
To lie outrageously or brazenly.
[Middle English, from Old English lyge; see leugh- in Indo-European roots.]
Synonyms: lie2, equivocate, fib, palter, prevaricate
These verbs mean to evade or depart from the truth: a witness who lied under oath; didn't equivocate about her real purpose; fibbed to escape being scolded; paltering with an irate customer; didn't prevaricate but answered honestly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We're on the same page on the 'choice' issue. If Sony had abided by the governing rules of the DVD Forum as they agreed to when they were asked to join, none of this would be happening. It could have gone either way (eg, either format) and consumers would have been none the wiser. Hopefully the best format as determined by the Forum would have been the winner. As it stands now, many of us here to lesser and greater degrees look at our equipment and DVD racks representing sizeable investments and mutter..."Son-of-a-BITCH!".
On a positive-ish note, the people who did go all in for HDDVD and pull together a respectable collection of movies in that format will still be able to enjoy them for years; even if they are forced going forward to pick up a BD player and build on that.
I'm amused by the people (not just here but other blogs I've found) who loudly and sometimes violently vocalize their discontent with the whole mess yet don't talk about the 2 or 300 SD DVD's they own; which they will never look at the same after having seen HD content. I guess those discs will be eventually be relegated to nostalgia like 8mm film, LD, or SVHS are.
Just one last thought; The studios, regardless of which format wins still have to be loving the format change wouldn't you think? When VCR's were replaced by DVD's they remastered everything for the new format. (I would think..I haven't researched ). And the same will happen to their archives with whatever format wins so logic would dictate they stand to make yet MORE money from an 'ancient' release that's been format changed a couple times for re-release already.
I just watched the HDDVD Blade Runner....it didn't look overly impressive at 720p but I need gamma correction as it's a dark assed movie so probably missed all the nuances and benefits of HDDVD. Either that or it was/is just a horrible transfer. I still enjoyed it tho!
Greg
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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Phil Smith
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 7717
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | wedge wrote: | | Phil Smith wrote: | | AnalogRocks wrote: | <geek on> I'm a "mostly ugly bag of water" </geek>
Name that quote ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
It doesn't ring a bell, but your history tells us it HAS to be from a Star Wars movie. |
No I think he is referring to St TNG still, but it was quoted from the Nanites that were accidentally released by vunderkind Wil Wheaton.
& If I am right & win a cigar,thats actually pretty sad that I know that. |
Give that man a SEEGAR!
You got it. Star Treck TNG, it wans't nanites however. It was the indiginous life forms on the planet they were trying to tera form. The tera formers drained the water table and caused great pain. When the captain used the univsal traslator that was what they called humans. "Mostly ugly bags of water"
Feel free to corect me. I only saw that eppisode once FIRST RUN 8) so probably 1988-89. |
Damn! I thought I had to be right. I'm trying to figure out how you found time to watch anything other than Star Wars. Obviously you were able to squeeze a little Star Trek in there as well.
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3353
Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Can we paleeeeeze get this thread back on track? Now, where's the closest tittie bar
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Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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JustGreg
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3098
Location: Kenosha, WI
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| stefuel wrote: | | Can we paleeeeeze get this thread back on track? Now, where's the closest tittie bar |
Sorry. ...and... it's on the southwest part of town across from St. Nicholas church. Ask for Amber.
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Greg
"Is it ignorance or apathy? Hey, I don't know and I don't care!" --Jimmy Buffett
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: Arvada, CO
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| garyfritz wrote: | | That's siliconE, Aubrey! One letter makes a biiig difference..... |
DAMN! I thought those used chips were being recycled into a BIGGER and BETTER purpose. 
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Aubrey
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KennyG
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JustGreg"] | KennyG wrote: |
Just one last thought; The studios, regardless of which format wins still have to be loving the format change wouldn't you think? When VCR's were replaced by DVD's they remastered everything for the new format. (I would think..I haven't researched ). And the same will happen to their archives with whatever format wins so logic would dictate they stand to make yet MORE money from an 'ancient' release that's been format changed a couple times for re-release already.
I just watched the HDDVD Blade Runner....it didn't look overly impressive at 720p but I need gamma correction as it's a dark assed movie so probably missed all the nuances and benefits of HDDVD. Either that or it was/is just a horrible transfer. I still enjoyed it tho!
Greg |
Actually I wonder about the studios that went to HD-DVD only, and if they are happy about what is happening...seems they have to completely rework their HD-DVD releases to put them on BD...and it seems that within a few months very few (if any) HD-DVD software will be sold. So they have invested quite a bit in the released titles, only to have what would be considered a low sales figures...with no chance of higher sales figures...you'd have to think they will take a loss on these released titles.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: |
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They don't have to completely rework anything. Most of the really expensive work is transferrable to BD from HD DVD. In some cases, it will be as simple as taking the graphic assets and plugging them back into the authoring system with BD as the target. In fact, if they were using Scenarist, it might not even take very long. All the video and audio streams will move over just fine, so it's really only the authoring. Worst case scenario, it's a week or two of work for a guy or two. Best case - a day. Either way, nothing compared to the transfer and encoding itself now that the hard work of planning, design, etc. is all done. At this point, it's just the technical part of actually authoring the master.
SC
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26706
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | They don't have to completely rework anything. Most of the really expensive work is transferrable to BD from HD DVD. In some cases, it will be as simple as taking the graphic assets and plugging them back into the authoring system with BD as the target. In fact, if they were using Scenarist, it might not even take very long. All the video and audio streams will move over just fine, so it's really only the authoring. Worst case scenario, it's a week or two of work for a guy or two. Best case - a day. Either way, nothing compared to the transfer and encoding itself now that the hard work of planning, design, etc. is all done. At this point, it's just the technical part of actually authoring the master.
SC |
How feasable will this be for a home user if BR wins? If that happens and we get BR-R disk's can we tranfer the HD-DVD movies to BR?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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I should have said they don't have to rework anything... except the interactivity itself. Since it's all planned out already (nobody's re-writing anything), it's a matter of plugging all the assets back into the authoring app (probably Scenarist at this point) and re-mastering. Of course, it'll have to go through testing and QA, etc. I'm not saying it will be cheap, but it won't be anything like starting from scratch.
One of the keys to it being easy for the studios is that they have all the assets as individual files - graphics, audio, video, interactivity - it's all stored in separate files. To make a BD, load all those assets into the BD authoring system, and go to town. Obviously, if there was a lot of interactivity, games, etc. it won't be as simple... For instance, some of the HD DVD's with Universal's "U-Control" interactivity may be difficult or impossible to implement exactly as it is on the HD DVD discs. But, basic moving menus, pop-ups, graphics, etc. can all be ported over pretty easily.
As for the consumer doing it... fuggedaboudit. The technologies are just too different and given the number of HD DVD titles that will probably make it to market, I don't know that the incentive will be there to make a tool as complex as it would have to be. The best you'll likely be able to do is rip the main and supplemental feature streams, wrap them in a basic menu structure and burn them on BD-R. It could even be automated ala DVD-Shrink in a year or two.
SC
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lyd
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 390
Location: Lake Mills, Wi
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: |
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The main feature is all I will worry about transferring. I've said before that the special features don't really do anything for me. That's pretty easily done right now, with the cost of burner and media being the only barrier.
lyd
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